On this week’s episode of the Building Interest Podcast, Jim Shanahan and Dave Kurzman, both Vice Presidents and Branch Managers of Leader Bank’s Needham Loan Office, discuss the emergence of Leader Bank as a residential lending powerhouse and the importance of retaining talent. Listen now to hear how Jim and Dave’s partnership of over two decades has cultivated a strong and positive work environment that has helped their team achieve and maintain a high level of success.

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Episode Transcript

Greg Farber:
Welcome to the Building Interest podcast presented by Leader Bank, a series of free flowing conversations on a wide range of banking and money related subjects. We are here to discuss all the issues that impact your financial future. Do you want to buy a home, start a small business or secure your financial future? Or maybe you want to maximize your savings ability, get your budget in order, we can help our talks with experts and influencers across the world of banking. We’ll set you in the right direction. I’m your host, Greg Farber. Let’s jump right in. Welcome back to the Building Interest podcast. I’m your host, Greg Farber, and today I’m joined by the oil and vinegar, the salt and pepper, the yin and yang of our residential lending business. Jim Shanahan, Vice President and Dave Kurzman, Vice President of our Needham lending office. It is a pleasure to have you both here today.

Jim Shanahan:
Thanks, Greg. Appreciate appreciate you inviting us down. 

Dave Kurzman:
Good morning.

Greg Farber:
Good morning. So Jim, why don’t we start with you. Tell us about what you do and how you came to be a loan originator.

Jim Shanahan:
So I started being a loan originator back in 1995, started off in a big company, worked there for five years, and then moved on to another company, which is where I met Dave, and Dave and I started working together.

Greg Farber:
Gotcha. So you were at a different company, already there when Jim joined?

Dave Kurzman:
When Jim and I worked together, Jim was actually already there. And I had joined as an originator. And it became very clear, within a few months that we collaborated very well together, and that we were about ready to build a better mousetrap in another place. So the opportunity arose for us to open up a branch for a correspondent lender, and Jim and I looked at each other and said, This is the time to move on. And, and we ended up leaving with a couple of key employees both on the operation side, and on the loan officer side. I think one of our strengths was early on, we realized that in order to make the mortgage industry work, you had to build the foundation operationally is where it starts. And we’re proud to say to this day, we still have many of our original operations people 17-18 years later.

Greg Farber: 
So you didn’t just come to Leader with an established team, you had already started at a place before leader with an established team that you’ve been cultivating over all these years.

Jim Shanahan: 
Yeah, so we started off just with building the loan officer piece. And then we started building up the processors, underwriters, that whole thing. So by the time we came to Leader, we had a pretty self contained operation.

Greg Farber:
Now, what sparked your interest in leader all these years ago was 90… oh I’m sorry, it was 2008, 2009. What sparked your interest in leader at the time where you said, Well, this is the place we want to leave and go to? 

Jim Shanahan: 
We were looking for a place with basically an opportunity to grow, grow with it, but not have a lot of layers of management on top.

Greg Farber:
Right. So you have a competitive advantage, you’re efficient, but you can grow.

Jim Shanahan:
Exactly something with the opportunity. And you know, Sushil was a, Sushil was an impressive person to meet with at the time, so…

Greg Farber:
And what happened to the some of the other companies that you were at, I mean, they just fell apart after you left?

Dave Kurzman: 
Well, we actually were quite quite lucky when we we started with this correspondent lender, during the mortgage meltdown of 2008. They went out of business. And because we had a very strong relationship with both our operations and our loan officers, they really looked upon us to find another place to go execute. At that time, we joined a small community bank in Maryland, where they had a very much the same type of system, lien pricing model, access to programs. And it was a very seamless operation because we were sunsetting from one company that had that had gone out of business, sadly, or actually happily, fortuitously, 12 to 18 months later, they ran into regulatory issues. So again, the team turned to us and said, We need to find another place to execute. And that’s when we met Sushil and Jay, amongst many other companies. I think it’s important to know, to note for our, you know, our history that we didn’t just look at one area, we really opened up the door and looked at many different options. And it was clear that Leader was by far the best model from both operations, management, execution and reputation. This the Leader name is well known in the area, it is always greeted with a smile, whether you’re talking to referral sources, or clients, or even employees in the industry.

Jim Shanahan:  
Yeah, just a touch on the search when we were looking for the next place to go. We looked at all the big banks out there, the big lenders, we looked at all the mortgage companies out there We looked at all the small little community banks to try to find the best platform. And after all that search, you know, we definitely knew the big banks weren’t the platform we were looking for the small community banks, although Leader Bank is one, it the most of them weren’t a good fit. The mortgage companies were too volatile for us. And the small community bank that was Leader was more operated like a mortgage company that it was a bank. So it had all the benefits of a bank yet have had the benefits of also being a mortgage company.

Greg Farber:
Right. And Dave, you mentioned sort of the Leader reputation, and at the time, we were, in fact, a much smaller community bank. And you’re right, that reputation is a key piece of who we were and who we are today. You guys must have come with some sort of vision or some sort of goal of where you want to take Leader next as part of this lending operation. And when you joined, what did you have in mind when you when you joined leader, like, where did you want to go with things?

Jim Shanahan: 
Mine, was being able to just build the best residential loan team that we could, that was really our mindset. And what that’s morphed into now is, you know, all the other aspects of being with a bank, you know, being able to do commercial referrals, being able to refer people to put deposits into the bank. There’s a lot of things that we never envisioned that we are able to do now.

Greg Farber:  
So our platform offered you a place to do more than just originate loans and sort of be pigeonholed into that category as originators.

Dave Kurzman: 
Absolutely. And it’s that’s a really good point, Greg, the, the, we felt we grew very much. At the same time with leader ideas, were always encouraged you, we never felt that we didn’t have a seat at the table. So as we grew, I think when we first came, correct me if I’m wrong, I believe Leader was closing anywhere from two to 300 million a year. And we knew our group was going to maybe double or even triple that. So every step of the way. Sushil and Jay, were excellent about allowing us to make suggestions, they were encouraging us to think outside of the box. And so we feel very much that our business grew in lockstep with the Bank. And we actually feel very supportive. And we feel very proud of being part of this Leader growth from the time we’ve been here.

Greg Farber: 
Now, you’re absolutely right about the numbers, we actually had our statisticians crunched some numbers. And I’m told that in the first year, you were here, we you guys generated about 300 million, which is right about what you just said, now, we’re talking on pace to do 10 times that we’re talking 3 billion in sales. What do you think that secret sauce is? I mean, obviously, the Bank has grown as a whole, but you’ve been a part of that. What’s the secret sauce to that got us, you know, to a tenfold increase in our loan productivity, and maintaining that quality standard, that Leader makes people smile.

Jim Shanahan:  
I mean, I’d say a big piece is giving the loan officers the opportunity to grow their business, giving them the right things where they’re not worried about some of the day to day details, they’re worried about doing what they’re hired to do, which is to drive business to create relationships,

Greg Farber:
What does that mean for a loan officer not to worry about their day to day business? 

Jim Shanahan: 
To give them the support that they need, so that in other words, when they’re collecting conditions from a borrower, they’re not spending their day collecting conditions and not doing, you know, busy work that we could hire somebody else to do.

Greg Farber:
Technology, staff, all…

Jim Shanahan: 
Technology with a staff. I mean, so many jobs in this business, if you’re a loan officer, they expect you to do you know, 99% of the work and not hire the teams or put the put the technology in place that you need. Now, that’s one thing that we’ve done is invest in the technology and invest in having, you know, processors, work on the conditions for loan officers and work to help the loan officers, lot of times it seems, you know, companies out there mortgage companies out there, or banks, sort of make it an adversarial relationship and get, you know, upset with the loan officers if they missed getting a pay stub from a borrower. Well, you know, we need to give them the support that they need so that they can get out there and drive more business not necessarily do do all the paperwork,

Greg Farber:
Right? It goes both ways. If you don’t have a good processors or underwriters, your loan stalls, but if you don’t have good happy loan officers, you’re not bringing in loans to pay for those people. 

Jim Shanahan: 
Absolutely.

Dave Kurzman:  
Jim, and I have a philosophy of making sure the loan officers don’t have to do extraneous stuff, we want them out taking loans and building their business. It’s our job to make sure that the the machine works very well. The engine has to keep rolling, we don’t want them involved in that, right. They don’t want to be involved. They want to make sure that their their opportunities are and when they’re up to bat they can they can get as many of the apples on the cart as a sales comment would be made just so that they’re able to not have to worry about the minutiae of of what our business can be sometimes.

Greg Farber:
Let everybody excel at the thing that they’re good at and not do what other folks are better at perhaps.

Dave Kurzman:  
Many of our loan officers have been here for their longest job ever. So this is…

Greg Farber:  
You mentioned you came aboard with some of them.

Dave Kurzman: 
You know, it’s interesting because the industry itself lends itself to people moving every few years. But our top loan officers have been with us, with without exception, this is their longest period of time. And many of the people that work for us either ran their own companies, or received very senior in their previous companies. And so that’s a testament to Leaders, operational staff, to the leadership that has shown not just in our office, but the support from the corporate side is amazing. Employees sometimes can be very, it can be very tricky, and you don’t know what’s going to bother them or interfere with their work. But from our lock desk, from our secondary department, from our human resource department, it’s an excellent place to work.

Greg Farber:
Now, all of those things are ultimately designed to keep the customers the clients happy, right? I mean, we want the clients to have a good experience to have an easy time applying for getting closing their loan, and so forth. How are you managing that in a fluctuating market? And how are you adapting to sort of the changing needs, but also the rate environment and all things that are affecting clients today.

Dave Kurzman: 
Our philosophy Jim and I have had a philosophy that our client is not just the person who works at Leader, but it’s our employee as well. And so our support mechanism doesn’t change whether the rates are, you know, very low or very high. Fundamentally, our business model is provide great service, be honest, and show integrity with everything that you do. And the business will come, Greg. So while the volume may be lower now, our customer service scores have never been higher, our… the feedback and the referrals from people continues to flow in. And you know, we’ve all been through this, we’ve all been in the industry for 20 plus years, and so rates go up and rates go down. We look at it as an opportunity now for us to grow our business because other you know, less qualified competitors might have to exit the space now, right, which will give us some growth opportunities.

Greg Farber:
You mentioned, the clients and the reviews and the surveys and things being very positive. The clients aren’t the only ones that we need to keep happy, right? We also need to keep our team happy. How do you keep the originators, the processors, the underwriters, that whole that whole engine that you describe how you keep them happy and engaged and excited. If loan volume drops off and things like that? 

Jim Shanahan: 
Well, it’s giving them the support that they that they need. So loan officers, I mean, this is a tough time where, you know, business has slowed down dramatically, but giving them the support and the tools they need to go out and develop new lines of business. So just because one segment has slowed down doesn’t mean every segment of the loan origination business has slowed down.

Greg Farber: 
Any example you can give of something like that?

Jim Shanahan:  
Well, I mean, typically the higher end market has slowed down quite a bit. Whereas first time homebuyers who didn’t have the opportunity to jump into the jump into the market, because their offers weren’t even being looked at. That’s now a big segment of our origination. So giving them the tools that they need, developing the mass housing products, developing, you know, FHA loans, things that weren’t really prevalent in our market in the last couple of years, that will be our market going forward. So putting together the tools necessary for them.

Greg Farber:
So there’s always a buyer, there’s always a borrower, it’s just a different process to go out and find who’s at the right time and the right moment. To be that next client.

Jim Shanahan: 
Exactly. It’s a shifting market,

Dave Kurzman:   
We manage an outside sales force, so…

Greg Farber:  
What does that mean?

Dave Kurzman: 
Sure. So our, our originators are self generating their own leads. So when they they don’t wait for the phone to ring. They’re not sending out necessarily direct mail or doing, you know, internet leads, they have developed a web of referral partners through attorneys, financial planners, real estate brokers, and obviously past clients, and they know how to work that system to generate leads. The other model that leader has is we also have an in house model. And that’s again, why Leader is a great place to come and work. Because whether you’re an in-house person, and that’s where your strength lies, you could go on the in-house team, if you’re a better generator, self generator of referrals, you would work in an office like Needham or Burlington, there are other outside offices at Leader as you know, so we can capture a wide group of customers by having multiple origination models.

Greg Farber: 
It sounds like those folks that you mentioned attorneys and real estate agents and financial planners. They’re really also part of that support machine, if you will, where the loan officer might not know where the where the borrower’s are going, but the real estate agent will know and the closing agent will know and so that that all plays together to keep the loan officers focused on the thing that they’re good at going out and getting those loansin.

Dave Kurzman:
The customer retention model that we have here is is very strong. They are the loan officers know to work these referral sources. And, you know, everyone is a potential buyer. So I think that the loan officer that does the best here at Leader is someone that has an open mind that is willing to put the time in to meet with the brokers. And you will see the rewards quite quite quickly if you’re disciplined in that model.

Greg Farber:
Now, I joked when we opened up that you guys are the oil and vinegar of our loan operation. And I’ve known you guys, well, I joined in 2009, as well. So I’ve known you guys about as long as we’ve all been here. And you guys have very different personalities. But at the end of the day, you have the same team, the same goals and you share in those same great results is not typical that you see co managers maintain such a lasting professional and dare I say successful partnership? How do you guys make that work?

Jim Shanahan:
Well, we’ve been working together now for over 20 years…

Greg Farber: 
Wearing different hats, or do you trade hats? Or how do you stay, you know, on the same page?

Dave Kurzman: 
Jim has really very good strengths. And in the areas that he’s strong I am I am weak in. And I would say he would probably say the same thing in reverse. And from a perspective side, we don’t look at it as somebody who’s right or wrong, it we look at it as we each have a different perspective. And I think that that helps make good decisions across the board. We we, our philosophy is very simple. We look at if we’re changing a process, or we’re making a new policy, the first thing we say is how does it affect the customer? And if it’s a negative effect on the customer and by the customer, I mean, not just the client at Leader Bank, but also our staff? If the answer is it will negatively affect that we look at another way to do it. So I think our overall, you know, grand, you know, Mantra is what is best for the people. And I think that has helped us, you know, co manage quite effectively over the last 20 years.

Greg Farber:
Now don’t tell me you guys hang out outside of work as well. Are you are you friends on a personal level as well?

Jim Shanahan:
Absolutely, absolutely…

Greg Farber:
Inseparable the two of you? 

Jim Shanahan: 
Yeah, but I wouldn’t call it inseparable. We definitely have our own, you know, have our own lives. But certainly we engage socially outside. And you know,

Dave Kurzman: 
We’ve seen our kids grow up together. And we have many common friends. But we we also, I will joke sometimes if Jim will call me on a Saturday, I’ve sometimes will answer the phone and say, I see you every day. What do you need? I bring a lot of humor. And to my day, I I like to say that we take the business very seriously. But we don’t take ourselves seriously.

Greg Farber: 
Right. I think that’s that’s a very important distinction to make.

Dave Kurzman:
I think it makes it a very comfortable place to work. I think if you interviewed or talked to any of our current employees, I think, you know, they would, they would say that it is it is more than than just a place to come to work that we really are interested in people’s lives. I mean, we’ve been to weddings, we’ve been to births of our employees. We are, you know, we’re very lucky that, that we have built a team that is very cohesive.

Greg Farber: 
Now we’ve covered some of the successes at work. We’ve obviously talked about the tremendous volume growth, the team growth, the support, and all these things. Tell me about what makes you a little bit outside of work. And how is your role at Leader maybe shaped that or given you an opportunity for fulfillment that you won’t find on a resume.

Jim Shanahan: 
I’d say the biggest opportunity it’s given us is to, you know, financially be able to afford to raise a family. I mean, it’s expensive, raising a family in these days. So, you know, Leader has really given us that opportunity to be able to put our kids through college, to raise a family do some of the extracurricular activities. So I would say the biggest thing…

Dave Kurzman: 
I would agree with Jim, I think also, it gives us an opportunity to give back to our communities. We both in the past have sat on boards in the towns that we are to help give back. I believe that the flexibility of this job allows us to do you know other things in our community, we are grateful that we have very good balance and our work our employees and ourselves. We’d never missed a child’s a recital or a ballgame because we always believe in we still do that family comes first. We don’t hire people to punch a clock, you’re hired to do a job and we’re going to assume that you’re a professional and that you’re well trained and that at the end of the day your work will be you know, done to the high level that Leader demands and so far it’s been a winning model.

Greg Farber: 
You know, that’s a testament to that we talked about the happiness and the culture and things that if people have the flexibility to take care of like you said, family comes first, what matters first, you’ll be in a better position to take care of the things that come up at the office.

Jim Shanahan: 
Yeah, that’s definitely played true throughout the years. I mean, there’s many times where somebody will have to take their kid to a doctor’s appointment in the morning. And you know, when they first start to work for us, they start to say, you know, apologize for it, it’s like, don’t apologize, that’s what you have to do. You give them the freedom to be able to do that. And they always get the job done. By the end of the day. They always let people know that they’re going to be out of office when they’re going to be and as long as they treat things in that way, and like an adult should, it always seems to work out,

Greg Farber:
They’ll figure it out soon enough if they’re not doing their job. 

Jim Shanahan:
Exactly, exactly. 

Dave Kurzman:  
We’ve brought on a few loan officers in the last couple of years from different companies. And we become very close with our employees as as we do treat this very much as a family. And I say employees, and I keep referring to that. But I really mean that we don’t no one works for us, people we all work together, we Jim and I not only manage the office, but we also originate. And we originated under the same terms as everyone that works for us, we’re paid the same commission, we are, we are in the same queue for underwriting, our loans don’t get approved quicker, they don’t get closed quicker. If anything, Jim and I will take our you know, our production to the side to the detriment of our personal production for the betterment of the team. During the refi boom of the last two or three years, we originated far less than we could, because we needed to be there to support the team in every aspect of making sure their business and their loans didn’t suffer as a result of of the market.

Greg Farber:  
You think that seamless transition you described between being a manager and appear has garnered you more approachability with with your team or?

Jim Shanahan:
Well, it’s also you know, it’s just part of the way that our management style is because you’re not going to you don’t want to go work in the loan officers that work with us, their work, they’re independent, right, its not a top down position, it’s it’s something where, you know, we stay, we continue to write loans, because we need to understand what they’re going through, we need to be able to do that. But our primary focus to help them get better at underwriting originating loans. That’s our primary focus. And when they have an issue on a loan, we’re familiar enough with it, we’re still in the game yet. We’re not putting our business ahead of theirs.

Dave Kurzman: 
This is why we answered the phone. And we text on the weekends and nights and, and our families understand that our families, you know, when we recently Jim and I were together at a social function, and we had a loan officer that was trying to you know, win a deal. And it required us to to work outside of the normal business hours. We’re okay doing that. Because that’s that’s what this job is all about. You take the hits, but you reap the reward the end come Monday or Tuesday when that employee walks in the office with a bright smile because they won the deal. More often than not, they’re thanking us for being available. And you know, Jim, and I kind of laugh because we would do that for anybody, we wouldn’t have to be a loan officer from our office, if somebody had called us, you know, where our philosophy is help everybody.

Greg Farber: 
But it gels your team, no questions asked.

Dave Kurzman:  
It is, the rewards are during as just to bring it back to what you had said earlier, we’re in a very troubling part of the market right now where volume is down 90%. So our foundational skill set is reaping rewards right now, our loan officers are listening to us, they are voicing their concerns, they feel this is a very safe and comfortable place to do it, Jim, and I look at the current market as an opportunity. You have to be able to peel the layers back and look at this is a great time for us to shine as a company.

Jim Shanahan:
I mean, I would say in times in the past in times of an increasing rate environment. When refinances slow down, that’s when we’ve actually picked up some of our best loan officers to date. I mean, it really is some of our best staff members, some of our best underwriters because it’s it’s just such an great opportunity, great, great time to grow.

Greg Farber:
Like it becomes clear that at another place where that person was maybe things weren’t as good as they are here. This is an opportunity to bring them here.

Jim Shanahan:
Yeah, weaknesses are exposed when things slow down. They really are in any organization.

Dave Kurzman: 
We had a loan officer leaves several years ago and left to change jobs a couple times and then came back to us because the grass is not always greener. And you know, we might be many things but we are very, very honest. We’ll tell you exactly what is going on. And I think people appreciate especially today having very direct communication.

Greg Farber:
Well, it’s thick with honesty, then short of just saying, Hey, we’re Jim and Dave, we’re awesome. What advice would you give to someone who is maybe thinking of making the switch or for that matter, maybe thinking of just starting out in the residential lending industry and sort of advice or thoughts on how to get that foot in the door?

Jim Shanahan: 
Well, for someone starting out in the industry, you know, the biggest thing is you don’t have to be the smartest person, you don’t have to work the longest hours, you just have to be focused, you need to basically have the desire. And just don’t take no for an answer. You know, where you recently brought on a new originator, but two years ago, three years ago, who came from a completely different field, I think she called in begged us for a job for a good solid two years. And we kept saying, No, you can’t do this, you’re in a completely different profession. She was a nurse and her previous profession, and basically kept telling her to go away that she wasn’t going to make any money. This was a, you know, commissioned sales job, and that she wasn’t cut out for it. She was so persistent that we finally gave in, we hired her and she’s doing quality you just described that you are assistants. And, and I mean, she’s doing a phenomenal job. So I mean, it’s just a testament to you just have to have perseverance, and anybody can survive. And typically anybody in this, you know, can survive in this industry and to well,

Greg Farber: 
So all these years later, you’re still here. And I keep going back to what you said at the beginning, that part of the team that you brought with you has even been with you from before Leader, this longevity is amazing. And I don’t know how long you guys are planning to carry this on. But what do you sort of see as the vision for rest lending and goals that had leader for the next 5, 10, 15 years going forward?

Jim Shanahan: 
I mean, just continued growth, you know, growth, not only just here in Massachusetts, but growth throughout the throughout the country. So maybe its growth outside of Massachusetts and growing the teams.

Dave Kurzman:
I think Leaders commitment to technology, innovation, and marketing is what’s going to help propel us over the next five to 10 years as well, we are way ahead of our competition when it comes to customer retention, customer Marketing. Our technology is excellent. Greg, we have tools today that I didn’t even think we would have five years ago, we have the ability to pre approve somebody from our smartphones, we have the top technology when it comes to laptops and our our VPN process. So we can originate whether we’re in California, or we’re in Puerto Rico for the weekend..

Greg Farber:
But arguably our competitors could have all those tools to why why are we so much better.

Jim Shanahan:
Now the tools we have are efficient, and we don’t want one doesn’t work, we’re very flexible. You know, we’ve we’ve used some technology out there that we thought was going to be the greatest thing. And we found out six months later that it wasn’t and we’re able to adapt and change. There’s not a lot of organizations that will do that. A lot of the lot of the bigger companies out there will say alright, well we committed to this and we signed a contract and we’re gonna stick with it, you know, Leader at least is is willing to admit their mistakes and make them move to a different better.

Greg Farber:  
It’s not forced growth, it’s thoughtful growth.

Jim Shanahan:
Thoughtful growth, exactly.

Dave Kurzman:  
We originate with a total platform of under 60 loan officers, it would take triple or four times as many at some of our larger competitors. Leader bank, you work for a place where the President knows the name of most if not all employees, when he walks through our branch, they’re comfortable to talk to people, I don’t think that happens at very at larger places you the personality is lost. So I think yes, you’re right. There are other companies probably have origination platforms that are great. But our lack of fat when it comes to management, I think makes us nimble. And as Jim said, we’re not afraid to say you know what, this, this didn’t work. And we can pull the plug and pivot, which is what we’re doing now in this market. So you know, it’s no longer a purchase refi market, it’s now a purchase market. So we’re doing our purchase pass, we’re doing 10 Day closing guarantees, yes, there might be other companies that are going to develop it. But we were able to get it out very quickly, we were able to market it. And we were really first to market with many of the innovative ideas that we come up with.

Greg Farber: 
With a culture of support and flexibility underneath it. Any last thoughts, closing thoughts, any anything you want to share that you think would be interesting to our listeners about your role or your growth leader or who you are?

Dave Kurzman: 
I mean, Jim and I have been together for over 20 years. And this is by far the longest job that we’ve had together long as company that we’ve been together. I think a lot of people who might be thinking about making a move here would be very well to come talk with us to spend a day or two in the office. When we do you interview people we tell them to call anybody that they want whether it’s somebody from the secondary department, somebody from marketing, we really turn the lights on to make sure that they are comfortable and that they they come in here so that if six months later, we don’t want them sitting down and pointing a finger saying you lie to us about something. We believe that right from the beginning you should just open the door and make people as comfortable as they can to see if the decision is right. Right for them. We have a philosophy which is Very simple, we like to, under promise and over deliver. And if you keep that as your primary decision making process, I think success will follow.

Jim Shanahan:
You just took the words right out of my mouth. That’s a term and a phrase we use all the time. And as Dave mentioned, we don’t want somebody we don’t want to hire somebody and have them a couple of months later feel like, you know, it was a bait and switch, we want to make sure that they understand that, you know, what we’re saying is true. We plan on you know, we’re hiring them not for a short term, we’re hiring them for the long term, we want these people to be with us 10 years from now and say, that was the best move they ever made. And if you do the bait and switch up front, it doesn’t happen that way. There’s a lot of resentment.

Dave Kurzman:
We bring a lot of humor to our work, we don’t take ourselves seriously. I really, you know, it’s people ask us all the time, how does it work? And I think it’s because we’re authentic. I think it’s because we’re, I can’t tell you how many times somebody will come in and I’ll either have the wrong answer or do something and I’ll go back to them and and as will Jim and say, You know what, I was wrong. That’s not how it needs to be done. And and I think that that goes a long way with people they see you as human. We’re not you know, they don’t work for us. We we work together. 

Greg Farber:
Managers and peers. Well, thank you both so much for making the time for coming in today. It was great catching up with you guys. I feel like we don’t see each other that much anymore. So it was it was fun for me as well. And thank you both. For more information about the topic of this episode, including more information about Leader Banks purchase pass and the ability to close in as little as 10 days, please visit leaderbank.com. In addition to past episodes, you can also find our corresponding blog entries for more insights. This podcast is a production of Leader Bank, N.A. equal housing lender. Member FDIC. NMLS number 449250.