This week on the Building Interest Podcast, we are joined by Jess Mader, Human Resources Operations Manager at Leader Bank, to discuss his experience as a leader, the importance of corporate transparency, and how methods of building trust within a corporate culture have evolved over the years. 

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Episode Transcript

Greg Farber: 
Welcome to the Building Interest Podcast presented by Leader Bank. In season two of our podcast, we've been exploring what it means to be a leader through conversations with leaders from within the communities we serve, as well as from across the world of banking and technology. Each conversation has focused on our guest's personal leadership journey, and provided insights on what it means to be a good leader. In our last episode, we were joined by Nathan Baumeister CEO and Co-founder of Zsuite Technologies. And we talked about his leadership journey, entrepreneurial successes, and the importance of living your brand. Today, we're joined by Jess Mader, Human Resources Operations Manager at Leader Bank. And we're going to talk about his experience learnings as a leader the importance of corporate transparency, and how building trust within a corporate culture has evolved over the years. So before we talk about corporate transparency, and we're going to talk a little bit about how that translates into into your role, why that's part of human resources, team member engagement, things like that. Let's learn a little bit about who you are just, I guess, tell us what your responsibilities are. Human Resources Operations Manager, in my mind, at least could mean many different things. And is that always the direction you want it to go?

Jess Mader:  
Well, my current role, I oversee the benefits, compensation, employee relations, pieces of human resources, as well as our payroll functions. So we basically touch everything. You know, we work closely with recruitment, we do the onboarding, you know, and in terms of HR, HR is, has been the direction I wanted to go, coming out of college. So it's something I enjoy. You know, there's multiple facets to it. You know, several years ago, we're talking probably 20 plus years ago, HR evolved to less of kind of a service center model and more of a strategic partner to leadership.

Greg Farber: 
Can you describe what you mean by that?

Jess Mader:  
Well, in the past people thought of HR as somewhere they go to, you know, get a paycheck, or fill out paperwork, right, HR and paperwork were synonymous. HR wasn't so much involved in sort of the strategic planning of an organization, the growth plans of an organization. Whereas now HR is more focused on driving engagement, being a partner to leadership, because honestly, a company's only as good as its, is its employees. And in our case, we refer to them as team members. So really...

Greg Farber: 
When you say that you, coming out of I forget, if you said out of high school or out of college that you wanted to get into the human resources space? Did you already see sort of this vision of human resources being more than just the place you go to fill out a form?

Jess Mader:    
Yes, you know, I learned more about HR because I started out of college in the staffing industry. So I was managing staffing firms. And when you're in the staffing industry, you're communicating with human resources professionals, you're meeting with them, because those are the people that you're establishing the relationships with. And those are the people you're working with your candidates to get in place. So I got a great insight into human resources. I have a background, I have a legal background. So there's a lot of legal work, there's a lot of compliance that goes into HR. So it's something that interested me in you know, it was a tough transition, because people in HR departments didn't necessarily want to hire someone that just had staffing experience. So it was, you know, I started off my career in HR, as a contractor for a short time with a healthcare organization. And after a few weeks or so I was hired permanently as a recruiter. So from there, very quickly, I got into sort of the legal workings of human resources, and, you know, employee productivity, you know, dealing with driving engagement, overseeing recruitment strategy, you know, building an education function for leaders, so it evolved there. And then I was lucky enough at that particular organization, to get experience in all aspects of human resources, which was very helpful in terms of my professional development really helpful as a leader too, because I'm a big believer in developing your team. So with those skill sets, you know, I can help build on my team members skill sets.

Greg Farber: 
Now, the teams that you develop, obviously would have to be somewhat different in different industries. You mentioned healthcare, there are some similarities between healthcare and banking, both very highly regulated industries. There's a sense of urgency to certain things. I mean, obviously, health urgency is very different from financial urgency. But if you are waiting for a multi $100,000 transaction to close that everything is contingent upon, you might be just as stressed as the person who's going in for a non life threatening surgery the next day. So there's some analogy there. But you mentioned being able to to to really develop those teams now, how much does the HR role factor into making sure that those are the right people in the right place at the right company? Like, is there is that is that analogous in healthcare? Are you more or less connected to the the team member base in healthcare or in banking, or is the role functionally similar?

Jess Mader:  
Functionally, it's similar. It I've always come from a space of, you know, in terms of hiring, and when I oversaw recruitment, I'm a big believer in hiring for capacity and for passion, as opposed to necessarily always someone skill set or resume. I've always believed matter of fact, mine, one of my best, most talented HR people was a school teacher, you know, wanting to get into HR. So, you know, for me, HR, you know, experience is important, but hiring the right people is important. And by the right people, I mean, people that are going to buy in and drive help drive the culture of people that are positive, people that are growth minded, and people that are focusing on customer service excellence. And, you know, to me, at the end of the day, and the reason why this Bank is so successful is customer service. So, you know, again, recruiting people that are passionate about their work, and want to grow, as opposed to necessarily someone who maybe isn't in that vein, but has a ton of experience, but I find it sometimes harder to, you know, maybe grow and develop those, those people. So, you know, I guess, I guess, at the end of the day, I always, I've always had a strong connection to the workforce in general, as an HR person, I found the way to be successful, especially in healthcare where theres less remote work, is to be visible, you know, for me, you know, I could sit there and I could be remote. Four days a week, and yes, if I wanted to, but I enjoy coming into the office, there's a different energy and as an HR professional, you should, you should strive to be visible, so people get to know you. And then you know, if there's ever a time where they need to connect with you, there's not any kind of apprehension, because HR being HR, you know, people sometimes, you know, gets the gets a bad rap of like, oh, you know, I'm going to the principal's office kind of thing, right?

Greg Farber:   
You gotta bring the same energy that you expect from other people.

Jess Mader:  
Yes, yeah. So I'm just being out and about walking around talking to people popping in people's offices, you know, I'd much rather meet in person if we can, if people are here. So, you know, that's definitely a key component of being successful in HR.

Greg Farber: 
So I want to talk about transparency a little bit. And to some extent, hiring and of course, firing as well, is really not a very transparent process. There's a lot of secrecy involved, there's, you know, rounds of interviews, no one knows who else is interviewing, you don't know what so you're gonna pay someone and things. So there is some inherent secrecy in that. But the transparency that I don't want to talk about is about the company and the selection process that happens in the company, right. So I was listening to another podcast the other day, and incidentally, it had nothing to do with dieting. So I'm gonna bring up dieting and our podcast. And the idea was, if you want to lose weight, and you've discovered that your problem is you eat too many sweets, but you can't just eliminate sweets entirely, because you're not going to get away from doing something that you inherently want to do. But you can reduce the sweets and you can have a conversation with yourself, think about when is the right time? Do I really want to do this now? Is this the right time that I want to allocate a smaller portion of sweets, and hopes of cutting down your overall. And the conclusion of that commentary in that in that podcast was that that made the quality of the sweets actually go up. Because the person was no longer just eating everything that was put in front of them. But they have made a conscious decision of "No, I'm not going to waste my calories on this sweet, that sort of moderate and not very good. I'm going to wait until I have something really good in front of me. And that's what I want to waste my calories on. And that's what I want to enjoy." And I listened to that. And I thought, you know, in a couple of days, when I'm talking to Jess. Now, people are not sweets. But are we going down that sort of same road where we're thinking, Okay, let's just not hire everyone that comes along? And from a prospective employees perspective, are we not just applying to every company that comes along? But are we sitting back and thinking is this the right place? And then if that is the right place? Does that inherently make the quality of the company and the hire go up?

Jess Mader:    
Yeah, I mean, absolutely. Absolutely. You know, the, the thing, the way I think about it now, too, is in this in this kind of market. It's very, very unusual and we've never seen it before. You know, COVID is partially to blame. So what has happened is, you know, the whole COVID epidemic caused a lot of people to retire or to go into different career fields healthcare was, it was a rapidly affected negatively about during the whole COVID process. So in nowadays where, you know, other companies are hurting to hire, you know, targets paying higher, retail is paying a lot higher, there's a lot more competition. So the recruitment process is very much, I would say, more proactive, now, you can't just wait for people to come to your website and come to you, you gotta find, you're gonna go out and find the people, whether it be off of LinkedIn or off of professional connections or personal connections. And then at the end of the day, it's got to be a fit for everyone. So, you know, in the interview process, having been through a number of times, you know, being the interviewer, you can tell if you're, if if you read into people, you can, you can kind of gauge their level of enthusiasm for, for the company and for the position. And I always want to ask them about, like, the typical, which most people don't want to ask them about the company, what interests them, and I know pretty quickly if they've done their homework, and if they're interested in a company, like I want people to run to us not run away from something else. So I think recruitment right now is, is the most, it's the most difficult time in recruitment right now. Because it's a candidate short market, there's a lot of instability. People are not moving as, as frequently as they used to in the other thing is banking, the industry that we're in, has had a pretty rough couple of years stretch here. You know, the news is out there about banks going under. So it makes recruitment that much more difficult.

Greg Farber: 
So you mentioned and I love this little snippet of you want people to run to us not away from something else that that's, that is the most succinct way I've ever heard that that said, and it really resonates to me. But if that's what we want, then how do we and this goes back to transparency? How do we put us out there in the light, as an entity that people want to run to against all those ads that you just said, banking can have a negative connotation, especially with some of the news recently, and we all live in banking every day, and we don't think it's a negative. So obviously, there is a way to present it in that more favorable light. So we get people running to us rather than away from something else. Well, what does that look like? How do we how do we make sure that the right people come running to us, as opposed to the people maybe that are in fact, running away from something else aren't the only ones knocking on our door?

Jess Mader:    
Well, so one of the things that I would go back to well, first of all, we start from a position of strength, right? We're a [Boston] Globe top 100 employer. That's a huge honor. And that's not an easy thing to achieve. So, right, seeing something like that, when, when I was going through the interview process, that's impressive. So we do start from a position of strength. But the other thing that I remember, the the thing that I feel strongly about, and then you realize quickly, when you're at this Bank here is it's not a typical bank. This Bank is very innovative, very fluid. I mean, in my time here, we've already opened up an insurance division. So where other banks have sought more the typical banking model, this is not, you know, you know, we have loan officers, we want judges, we do a lot more here than a typical bank does. And the thing that I appreciate here is it seems to me that leadership is always taken a look at the business and how we can adapt and grow. There's always that growth mindset. So we're, so going back to being a top employer, and I mean, people inside of your organization, like I said, we start from a position of strength, are happy and engaged, the leaders here are amazing, you know, you can tell on the conference calls, in the meetings, people are engaged, you need to carry that enthusiasm over to the interview process. You're, you're you're selling your company, so you're essentially selling something, if you if you can present it in a way that this isn't, this isn't a typical bank, and this is why we're the best in the industry. And this is this, this is these figures. This is why we're the top lenders in the state is because we're innovative, we're growing. We're not suffering, like, you know, some banks with older models. So I think that's important, but in terms of, you know, the other part of this is getting out there. So, you know, I think we do a good job of getting our name out there.

Greg Farber: 
Some of that advertisement is not just for the banking customer, it's also for the prospective team member customer.

Jess Mader:    
Yes.

Greg Farber: 
So if we demonstrate our passion and our leadership proactively, we're not waiting for people to find us. We're saying we're actively looking for the right people.

Jess Mader:  
Yep. So, and you know, the other part of it is, what they do well is they're recruiting people in jobs who are not looking to leave, right. That's what they call passive recruitment. So you're not recruiting active people who are out there, you're recruiting people that are in their jobs. And, you know, doing some of the work that we think is valuable that we need. So it's always you're always going to get the better people that you're going out in your hand selecting, I think your chances of hiring, the better, the stronger candidates are a lot greater when you're doing passive recruitment.

Greg Farber:   
So let's let's switch for a second to to your own personal brand of leadership. And I understand, at one point, you were a certified leadership coach. So multi part question, first question is, what does that actually mean? What does that look like? But second question is, is that still a, either a certification or just even a skill set that you actively leverage, when we have new team members come on board to make sure that they are on the right track.

Jess Mader:    
So essentially, what it is, is it's a skill, it's a, you know, it's a, it's an education. And so learning program I went through that helps you especially focus on managers that are struggling in one or more areas. So when I first got the certification, I worked for a large employer thousands of employees. In health care sometimes, like in other industries, it's not always the transition to management is sometimes just you're the best at you're, you're the best nurse. So now you're the nurse manager. So people don't come into those jobs with a lot of training. So they almost at some point, they could be set up for failure. So, you know, I would work with managers, you know, on engaging their employees having productive conversations. So there's a lot of coaching a lot of one on one. And really, everything's everything's aimed at building an engaged workforce, because anything will tell you an engaged workforce is about 20, or 30%, more productive than a disengaged workforce.

Greg Farber: 
That makes a lot of sense, what you say, and you use the example of the best nurse, and then that person may not be the best manager, because they have no background in managing, you've also just taken your best nurse off of the off the rounds, if you make that person a manager. So now you you almost have to voids to fill, you have to train the person to be a manager, and you also have to make sure that they can backfill their own position with the next best nurse.

Jess Mader:    
Yes, yeah. So you know, you hit the nail on the head, so I didn't even think about it from that end. That's it, it just, for me, it was just, you know, and I worked on larger programs, because we took a look at how the managers so we, we took a number of measures where we put in place formal programs, when people transition into leadership roles. They went through a lot of inside and outside education, you know, a lot of mentoring a lot of one on one, so we didn't just drop them into position. So and that, when we did that, we saw our engagement levels go up. So I thought that was, you know, an effective strategy here. Because like I said, it's, it's pretty frequent that people vote into management then that have never been in management.

Greg Farber: 
If you have someone who's promoted, and maybe not everyone is cut out for it. You ever have any, for lack of a better word failures that came about in that way? And then what lessons can we take from that where maybe that wasn't the right person to promote? And how could we have known how could we or maybe, did they fail, because they weren't properly supported? Just looking for some for some lessons on how do we make sure that if we've made this decision, that it's the right decision?

Jess Mader:  
Yeah, so

Greg Farber:  
or is it always kind of a bit of a gamble?

Jess Mader:  
No. But, you know, going back to your question about have I worked with leaders that that have failed? Yeah, there's been a lot.

Greg Farber: 
So what do you learn from that? Not not them, but you how do you take that experience forward, and make you a better leadership coach make you a better human resources manager?

Jess Mader:  
Well, part of its introspectively. So whenever I was involved in these coaching and training sessions, the first thing I always thought about if it wasn't working as it should was, what am I doing wrong? What can I be doing better? Because if they fail, I fail, right?

Greg Farber: 
And that's the last thing most people want to admit that they might be the one making the mistakes. I think that's a really valuable point that you bring up is that start perhaps by looking at yourself.

Jess Mader:  
Yeah, exactly. And the thing that's critical for, to be successful as a manager is you gotta be, you got to be open, you got to be approachable. And you got to be transparent. So, you know...

Greg Farber:   
What makes a manager transparent?

Jess Mader:  
For me, a manager is transparent if they share, if they share any information, if they share critical information about the organization, the organization on a larger level, but it's, it's an opportunity for you to, for you, to make your employees realize how their job impacts the Bank.

Greg Farber:   
Why is that important?

Jess Mader:  
Well, because you want your employees to feel like they have some skin in the game, right? You want people to be in jobs, where they're not just, you know, doing one or two things, but not knowing how that contributes to the Bank. So you want to be able to, you know, articulate to them how their contributions, you know, make a positive impact on the bank, how, why their job matters. And that's part of transparency. But, you know, I, I came out of a meeting very early on here, and it was our CFO speaking, it was it was one of the better meetings have been to because I had never been into banking, I had never worked in banking. And he laid out in about a half hour. Basically, the mod, the business model of the bank, we're successful, we're looking to grow, it was the best 30 minute education I think I've ever had. So from there, you know, I've dealt with p&ls and financial numbers before but you know, that's information that's critical for my team, right? Because you want to share with them with a potential concerns are, and you also want to show them where the successes are. Because like I said, this Bank is very innovative. You know, people tend to worry about job security, when you hear all the negative publicity, but to be able to bring it back to the team say, you know, guys, we don't have to worry about that we're a different business model. We are, we're innovative, we have other business lines. So you know, there's times where your your interest rates are a high, so maybe we're not, we're not growing in that area, but we're growing the insurance area. So it's important to share that that information that comes from a higher level. So people feel invested in their jobs.

Greg Farber: 
So this meeting that you came out of you obviously left that meeting, feeling like you knew better what your roles value was to the organization, but then you turned around and carried that message forward to bestow that same level of understanding of what their value is to the people around you.

Jess Mader:    
Yeah, and the other part of transparency, it's gotta be two ways. Right? So it's not just delivering a message, but it's two way communication. Right?

Greg Farber: 
Right.

Jess Mader:    
If I have employees that are concerned, or I see trends in the organization, I need to bring that to the top, especially in someone in HR, and I do. So you know, when I have concerns about, you know, morale, or, or issues in a certain area, you know, I, I hear some feedback, I get to bring that to leadership. And, and they have to know it in. And I do, I do hear regularly in in our senior team is very supportive. And, you know, I, and I'm action-oriented. So I have the luxury of I've done, I've done the sort of employee relations piece of HR for a couple of decades now. So it's kind of one of my, my stronger points. But...

Greg Farber: 
Is this something that can be measured? Like, do we have metrics that tell us whether or not these initiatives are working?

Jess Mader:    
Well, I think you can look at the Boston Globe survey, and that'll tell you, what's working and what's not. But really the way you have to dig deeper as, as a manager, you have to have those daily conversations with with your team. How are you doing? What can I do better? That's, that's my big line you can ask people at work for me is what can I do better?

Greg Farber:   
Culture managing but not necessarily micromanaging? Because that turns people off?

Jess Mader:  
No, you have to give people autonomy in their jobs. People don't...

Greg Farber: 
But you want to keep a pulse on how they're feeling?

Jess Mader:    
Yeah, it's fine line, right. But at the end of the day, you need to make the work meaningful. So you need to diversify people's work, you need to let them know how their work contributes, you need to let them know their value. So I mean, those are those are just some of the parts of transparency and you know, at the end of the day, I talk about engagement, right? So people are essentially satisfied in that they know how they contribute to the company. They're enthusiastic about their work and they put their best foot forward. So transparency is sort of the biggest driver of engagement, you know, I've been in place, oh go ahead Greg.

Greg Farber:   
I was gonna say with with these terms that we kind of keep tossing around. We talk about passion, we talk about engagement, we talk about transparency. Is there any one particular maybe not even one of those three things that really embodies who you are, that is your personal brand, or your theme that when you get up in the morning, that's what you're bringing into work? Or nevermind, work, maybe it's something you bring to something outside of work, maybe your personal brand and theme, if you bring it to other things to bring it to your personal time.

Jess Mader:  
Yeah. So I am definitely enthusiastic, and highly engaged and in the company. So I also like to think I have a good sense of humor, to lighten the mood and self deprecating and make fun of myself.

Greg Farber: 
I like that word, enthusiastic, because that's not a corporate buzzword that we typically hear we hear people, you know, you ask someone, what, what, what their best strength is at work or something, they'll talk about attention to detail, or they'll talk about timeliness, or they'll they'll talk about, you know, some managerial strength or something, but just this raw feeling of, hey, I'm enthusiastic, I love it.

Jess Mader:  
So let me give you let me give you an example. So say I'm a teller at one of our branches. If I have a manager that, you know, I don't necessarily trust, or I don't really know. And, you know, I don't take the time to know them, and I'm micromanaging them. And they don't know anything about what's going on with the company. And I got another employee, who is happy managers, good managers, open, transparent. If I'm coming to work and my stomach's in knots, because I have to deal with someone difficult. And it's kind of a thankless environment. As opposed to I like this company, I like the job, who's going to be more productive? Who's going to provide better customer service skills? The person that's dreading to come to work that day, and, you know, stomach in knots, or the person that wants to be here likes to be here, is treated fairly, is valued, is rewarded is recognized.

Greg Farber: 
Regardless of their technical skill set.

Jess Mader:    
Yes. So and that's, that's the that's the big thing for me. You need to you need to have people that are engaged, companies that have engaged workforces are four times more productive than companies that do not. So I mean, at the end of the day, that's the most important thing for any organization. You know, we're building an engagement committee. And the reason why I like this is because we can come from a spot, where we're not just driving down initiatives that we think people are going to make people happy, you know, we're all are, I think we're a team members would like this. So let's, let's have a company barbecue, I think the thing that makes that valuable is we have people from all different parts of the organization, they talk to their co workers, they're telling us what they need. So it's coming from the employee, not the employer, in our case, it's coming from the team members, not not necessarily all the time leadership. So we're getting our ideas, you know, from...

Greg Farber: 
Organically.

Jess Mader:    
Yeah, exactly.

Greg Farber: 
So I want to go back to you working at the teller line there for a second and I know you're frustrated, because you dread your manager and your stomach's in knots every morning, when you come in. What do you tell our listeners that might be in that situation doesn't have to be a teller, they could be in a job, they might feel stuck at a company or with a manager that they don't trust? And you said earlier, we don't want them running away from a company to try to be at the next right place. What do you tell that person? How do they navigate either within that company or maybe come find a better company, to get into a better place? What do they need to do? Obviously, we could say, well, their manager should be better or their company should be better. But as an individual, what options do they have? What do you tell them?

Jess Mader:    
Well, I think first and foremost, if you're in that situation, you really have to try to build a relationship with your manager and let them know where the pain points are. Let him or her know where your pain points are.

Greg Farber: 
Even if you're afraid they might not want to hear it from you.

Jess Mader:    
Even if you're afraid because otherwise, where you're gonna go?

Greg Farber: 
So number one, be strong stand up for yourself.

Jess Mader:  
Yes, it and you know, there's ways to do it in a positive manner. And I've coached plenty of team members on how to do that. And in the past plenty of employees on how to do that. You always start with a manager. You know, if someone would come right to HR, you're sort of you're sort of negatively impacting the trust in that relationship.

Greg Farber:   
You haven't given it a chance. Yes, you've gone end around and you're you haven't given them a chance to let it develop.

Jess Mader:    
And then you get to think introspectively to am I not happy because of my manager or the environment? Or am I not happy because of me?

Greg Farber:   
That's a tough conversation to have.

Jess Mader:  
Am I never am I just not going to be happy in this environment. And in that case, you probably need to look outside. But if you're in a situation, maybe where you're in a department or group where you're not necessarily satisfied for whatever reason, and you don't think that's going to improve, then really, if you like the organization, there's opportunities. In the organization, especially in this one, I mean, I see it all the time, people going into different jobs, getting different skill sets. So, you know, you might, you might get to the point where you're realizing that, you know, the situation's not gonna improve, and it doesn't help your manager, it doesn't help the employer. And it doesn't help you if you stay in that situation in that sort of, you know, that kind of experience.

Greg Farber: 
So coming from the enthusiastic guy, there's a level of gotta give your manager a chance to get to stand up for yourself, don't immediately go around and go to HR, but also self evaluate, in what situation would you find yourself where maybe you would be more enthusiastic? And if that's within reach, go get it? If it's not maybe reevaluate where you are?

Jess Mader:  
Yes.

Greg Farber: 
I love it. I think that's, that's fantastic. I feel like we could talk for hours on this, like you said, we are on the committee, I myself am very much interested in engagement and all the different ways that we can make that happen. I think it's been absolutely fascinating to hear your thoughts and your background on these, you said a couple of things that were just worded in a way that I would have never thought of. So I really want to thank you for that. And thanks for coming on and being here. Any, any sort of last thoughts? Or last words of advice, or Greg shut up we're done here, that you want to kind of leave us with?

Jess Mader:  
Yeah, no, I, you know, I want to say one thing that I that I didn't say earlier. And I think, you know, I'm not, I can't tell you if I'm successful or not. But I like to think I'm pretty good at what I do. But I think one of the most one of the best things a leader can do is give the "why". I know it sounds like a cliche. But if I'm working with a manager, and say they want to pay an employee x, and we can right, well, our internal equity, or we just can't based on the role. Well, as opposed to tell them the manager,"No, we can't do that". You know, I would tell the manager why we can't get to that rate, whether it be the market conditions, whether it be internal equity. So that's helped me build relationships here. You know, you, you always want to give people the "why", you know, my employees the same way. I mean, I might be asking them to do things they don't want to do. But if I tell them why it needs to be done in the importance, it's a lot easier. So that's kind of one thing I wanted to touch on. But no, overall...

Greg Farber: 
I like it, it goes back to that comment earlier about if people understand how they fit in, they will be a more positive, more engaged team member. And kind of the same thing here. If the manager understands why they can't offer something, they will have an easier time representing that.

Jess Mader:  
Yes. And you know, like I said, I think it's, it sounds cliche, but it is one of the most important things you can do to be an effective leader.

Greg Farber:   
I suppose most cliches are cliches because there's some truth to them.

Jess Mader:  
Yes. So no, this is this has actually been I was nervous coming into this. It's been a great experience.

Greg Farber: 
What are you passionate about outside of work that's gonna get you that golden trophy.

Jess Mader:  
So I have 9 million hobbies because I am not good at sitting idle.

Greg Farber: 
9 million. I'm we're gonna have to ask our producers if we have time for that, can you can you pick one or two?

Jess Mader:  
You know, one of the passions I have is cooking. I started cooking on Sundays to sort of a stress relief, I had a very stressful job, fast paced environment, you know, so someone had made the recommendation and you know, find something you like to do that makes you relax. So and cooking is that thing, so you know, I find it to help with me being creative, right? You can you can kind of get creative with cooking. It's a big pleaser. I live in a neighborhood where we're all close with our neighbors so you know like tonight and tomorrow we all bring a certain food and we all eat together so I love getting the reaction of mine's good but my friends will also tell me if it's terrible to so you know I love being able to do that make people happy through food and it's a stress relief. My daughters are now interested so we cook together so I find that, I feel like you know in terms of like salsa and chili recipes you know I you know I think I could be anything go on business with that.

Greg Farber:   
You sound what's the word enthusiastic about this. So you carry your enthusiasm forward in your personal life and not just in your work life as well.

Jess Mader:  
But yeah, I haven't really in hobbies, elected woodwork. I like to golf. I love the Patriots.

Greg Farber: 
Woodworking talk to me about that. And and, and I'm curious about that one because that's I'm also personally kind of interested in understanding woodworking better myself. But I'm thinking of that as you're really molding, a finished product? And is it really ever finished, you ever keep sort of tinkering with it, which is very similar to the way that you might approach a role where you're continuously trying to mold your role into something better? And are you ever really done? Self improving, personally or at work?

Jess Mader:    
Yeah, actually, I'll tell you, I'm a horrible woodworker.

Greg Farber: 
That's just, that's just the starting point, right?

Jess Mader:    
If I was, you know, if I, if I've gone to the same level of my job that he was a woodworker, I'd be fired. So, but yeah, you know, it's no, I don't think it's ever done. Well, especially not for me because I, you know, I usually have to I buy extra wood because I usually have to do things two and three times, I would say, on a larger scale, I'm very much similar outside of work than I am inside of work.

Greg Farber:   
Your passion and your enthusiasm carry over just the tasks are different. What you're embodying is not filling out forms and just signing up for a benefit. It's all these other elements that contribute to the whole. So..

Jess Mader:    
Yes, yeah.

Greg Farber: 
So those relationships that you mentioned them, and that's key to fulfilling that, that new world HR, that we have.

Jess Mader:  
Thank you and guys, have a great weekend. This was a really nice experience.

Greg Farber: 
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