This week on the Building Interest Podcast, we dig into how passion can lead to success with Laurie McLachlan, Chief Marketing Officer of Digital Onboarding, Inc. Laurie has been in the marketing industry for decades and shares her biggest learnings as a Leader, what motivates her, and provides insight on how she has turned her passion for storytelling and human connection into a career.

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Episode Transcript

Greg Farber: 
Whether you're seeking inspiration, wisdom or a fresh perspective on leadership and entrepreneurship, the Building Interest Podcast has you covered. Together we uncover the stories behind the successes for groundbreaking leaders, the triumphs, the challenges and the invaluable lessons they learned along the way. Our discussions go beyond strategic decision making, and delve into the personal hobbies and passions that keep these leaders inspired and grounded in their work. I'm your host, Greg Farber. Let's jump right in. Today, we're joined by the Chief Marketing Officer for Digital Onboarding, a dedicated leader and passionate storyteller. Laurie McLachlan. Welcome, Laurie.

Laurie McLachlan:
Thank you very much, Greg. I'm happy to be here.

Greg Farber: 
This is exciting. I'm really looking forward to what we're doing here on the podcast this year, really trying to go beyond that. Let's just talk technical stuff and really get into what makes the people that drive businesses, right. And we both work for very forward thinking entrepreneurial type environments. And it isn't always just the physical business that makes a difference, right? It's the people behind it. And we know that you've been doing something related to marketing for 30 years or so. Obviously, you have a passion for the industry. Is this something that you kind of fell into something that you always knew you wanted to do as some influences along the way that that steered you towards where you are today?

Laurie McLachlan:
I would say that I fell into it. As a child, I definitely loved storytelling. I watched a lot of television when I wasn't playing outside a lot of 70s commercials at commercials, there were a couple of TV shows. Nothing in common with Tom Hanks, but you know, or sorry, nothing in common with Jackie Gleason, bosom buddies with Tom Hanks. So I just, I think I just thought it looked fun. And I liked the idea of telling a story, to get somebody to kind of get excited about something like a product.

Greg Farber:  
That's funny that you mentioned commercials, right. And I think the average listener or viewer doesn't think of commercials as telling a story. But this gets right to the heart of what we're getting at. You're passionate about marketing and telling stories. do commercials tell a story is that's what's happening there?

Laurie McLachlan: 
Well, I think the industry has changed quite a bit. We're talking one day after the Superbowl. I've already read a lot of the commentary about, you know how disappointing Some people felt those commercials were. But I do think you know, the origin. And certainly when I joined advertising in the early 90s, was very much about storytelling. I think as it got more data driven, and more celebrity obsessed, it's changed a little bit.

Greg Farber:
So marketing isn't necessarily storytelling alone. But that's part of making a connection with a potential customer.

Laurie McLachlan:
Oh, definitely. In fact, I think it's probably the best way to connect with a customer. You can talk about your features. I mean, we happen to sell a software platform. I can talk about features all day long. But that's never as powerful as if I can tell them a story about what their customers going through. That's when I get their attention.

Greg Farber:
Absolutely. It's awesome that we kind of just fell right into that when you said commercials. And it just it hit me like, oh, okay, we're telling stories to get people interested in our products. So just to back a little bit on that. Now we both work in financial services. Obviously, I work for a bank, and you are providing a software platform, as you mentioned, that is important for bank partners. Do you think there's unique challenges in in marketing, and then the positions that you have that relate to banks and financial services that's different from marketing to other industries?

Laurie McLachlan:
I don't know if it's the circumstances that are unique, but the predicament is definitely unique.

Greg Farber: 
What do you mean by that?

Laurie McLachlan:
There's, there's lots of commodity businesses out there. I happen to think banking is one of them. Certainly, there's neobanks that are, you know, specialized niches that are maybe a little less commoditized. But if you ask the ordinary American, what's the difference between a checking account of Bank of America and Chase, you're not going to get an answer. And financial institutions seem to always fall back on rates, mobile banking features and functions and branches. I think they assume I don't know this, but I think bankers might assume that because it's dollars and cents. It's numbers. It's science. But actually, I can't think of a more emotional industry than banking. It's been people's livelihoods. And so I think they want to hear those stories like you've got their back, like credit unions are trying to do.

Greg Farber:
So even though on the face of it, it's a business of dollars and cents. And let's compare, let's say you were, I don't know, a soft drink manufacturer or something, right? It's dollars and cents there too, because you have a bottom line and you want to make money. But how you're marketing, I'm almost hearing you say there's a different level of trust required in getting the client through the door. Because that personal connection, that livelihood that you mentioned, so marketing to your soft drink client, customer base, is different than marketing to to the bank base. But it sounds like in a way, at its core, you're saying it's really maybe not that different, because you're ultimately still going for the same goal.

Laurie McLachlan:
I think the approach you use would obviously be different. But this might sound bold, but plenty of other people have said it. All marketing. What any ad campaign, if you boil it all down, it's promising love and security period. So you want that fancy car, why do you want it to look good to make friends to get the girl? If you can peel everything back to what like basic human desires? And I think in banking, people just want to know, yes, that their money is safe and secure, but that they're not going to run out of it, and that their bank has their back.

Greg Farber:
Gotcha. No, that makes a lot of sense. Pivoting to you a little bit, then you're obviously in a leadership role, Chief Marketing Officer for a company that is putting together these platforms for banks, are there particular lessons, or maybe even a kind of a pivotal moment that that happened as you went along, that really influenced your approach to not specifically the marketing, right, but your role as a leader guiding the marketing forward in your role?

Laurie McLachlan:
Definitely. It wasn't a single moment. But I would say it was my most recent several years of working, where it just I had to change. I learned, I guess, the obvious that the people around you can absorb your stress or, and really what they need is they need a leader that projects confidence and care, even when things are stressful. And I knew that and I think I've always done it. But I think I'd became more acutely aware of it, in this kind of growing startup business. And if you asked me where it started, it's maybe sounds like an unlikely place. But it was watching my sister become a mom.

Greg Farber:
Oh.

Laurie McLachlan: 
I'm not a mother myself. And I don't even know that I knew it was seeping into me at the time. But little lines should use for their kids. It's okay to be mad. It's okay to be sad. It's okay to be scared. And just like the way she taught them to have a calm and encouraging inner voice. I started saying those things to myself. And I think it changed my outlook. It sounds ridiculous. But it did.

Greg Farber:
Now I'll be honest, it doesn't sound ridiculous at all. And it's not the first time that we've mentioned children on this podcast as kind of a guiding light for for some of us. I have a young daughter. And absolutely, I've had those moments where trying to teach not not a thing but but the right way or something has been illuminating in the way that I approach maybe business as well. And we don't want listeners to think Oh, talk to your team members like their children. That's not the point at all. But the point is the lifting up in the caring, as opposed to just sort of blindly doggedly going about your business.

Laurie McLachlan:
Remembering, I mean, psychological safety is the word used right? In the business world, but people need that at work. They want to feel appreciated, valued, and they might not know that if you don't tell them. That's something I've learned.

Greg Farber:
And it's such a how do I say this? Sort of, it's not it's not an active, it's almost like a passive leadership skill. Like you're not sitting them down and telling them this is how I'm going to lead. You're just doing it by example. And that has so much value.

Laurie McLachlan: 
Absolutely. And just I mean, it's also how I want to be treated and you know, We're not here to talk about our company. But you know, I'm really proud of the team that we built. And it really does feel like everyone has each other's back. Yes, we're driving each other and we're excited to win. But I think leaders will find that if you invest in that, instilling psycho psychological safety, people want to give it their all even more. Because it's a place that that they want to succeed. Absolutely,

Greg Farber: 
I'm gonna, I'm gonna say that we've seen a similar transformation at our company, where especially once once COVID hit and sort of the world shut down. Now banking is in some ways, an in person business, there's always going to be tellers and physical branches. But in a lot of ways, it's also a back office business. And we expanded hiring to different markets to be able to find a talent that we needed to find. And that meant that paying attention to our culture, and the type of people that we brought into our team was paramount to making it work. And I really do agree that yes, that team behind sort of planning that team and having the right folks in the right places is key for that and supporting them.

Laurie McLachlan:
Yeah, absolutely. And you've certainly done a great job over there.

Greg Farber:
So, I'm going to kind of change gears here just a little bit, go back to something that we were talking about in advance of today's episode. And you mentioned, I think, the words were used that you like to be a spectator. And so here I am hosting a podcast, and I'm actually much more introverted than you might think. I like to sort of be observing how other people are interacting and things. And being a spectator is something that I value. And I was wondering if you could elaborate a little bit on what that means for you, and maybe why you think that's something that's important to you? And does that stepping back and being a spectator make you better? Or is it just something you'd like to do to kind of calm your brain?

Laurie McLachlan:
I don't know if it makes me better. And that was my response. When you asked what my hobbies were?

Greg Farber: 
Yes, it was.

Laurie McLachlan: 
Yeah. So yeah, what I meant was, you know, really, my passion is learning about the human condition. Right? Why are we here? Why we do the things we do. And I'm a spectator, when it comes to storytelling, I love to go to things like the moth story, slam, poetry slams, theater, a lot of the movies I watch are, they're not horrors. They're not always comedies, they're usually something having to do with like, an experience that I've never experienced and trying to learn about people, even though it might be fictional.

Greg Farber:
Interesting. I personally love that. I mean, I, in my day job, I work in audit and compliance. And it's not exactly the most social of jobs, right? I'm not out running a sales team. I'm not, you know, having that sort of that natural engagement, where all I want to do is go talk to people to bring in business. And yet, sitting back has really given me an opportunity to kind of have that perspective that when it's time to come forward, I'm better prepared.

Laurie McLachlan: 
Yeah, yeah, I'm probably more thoughtful about it. I can definitely. In fact, I was in a room for five days last week with a big group of people, but I'm much more comfortable one on one, or things like that.

Greg Farber: 
So another sort of funny little thing that we came across when we were preparing for today's episode, about a quarter viewers online, and I'm guessing there's more to the story than the quote, I love the quote as it stands, but I'm wondering if you can kind of maybe put it in context for us. What you said is, the truth is, if the sales team would stop winning so many deals, and the overachieving product, and engineering teams would take some extended vacation, I could finally shine. Now, what did you mean by that? And what's the background? And is there some truth to that perspective?

Laurie McLachlan:
Well, let me tell you a quick story. So this was I think it was last spring, things were roaring at the business. And I got behind on issuing new business press releases, right, where we talk about the banks and credit unions we're now working with, and my head of sales, John rightfully called me on it. He's like, where are the press releases? And I felt so guilty. And I was like, I know. And I thought to myself, well, I can either write dozens of these right now or I can write one press release. And that's what I decided and then I thought, I think I was slap happy. I'm like, How can I make this fun and worth reading? And so I sort of told the truth, which is I fell way behind on writing press releases, and that was the headline of the story. Random is I grossly misunder reported our wins.

Greg Farber:
Because things were going so well, you're not falling behind because it's tough. You're falling behind because things are great.

Laurie McLachlan: 
So that's how to do. That's how to do marketing. Right. Or I think it's also what makes I know this is a different topic is what makes a good roast. Right. And so insult it's a compliment disguised as an insult. Right? Like I don't know, he's so smart. He could never, you know, it's it's so yeah, I was just trying to have fun with it. I was trying to really tell the truth, which is, you know, the business is doing well, which is the message you want to get across in the press release, but use myself as the fall guy to get a laugh.

Greg Farber:
Somewhere between humility and self deprecation.

Laurie McLachlan: 
Yeah, yeah. That's, that's my kind of humor.

Greg Farber:
No, I really love that. And I experienced a similar moment at the Bank, I don't know it was at least 10 years ago. And I just thought it was always so funny. Because in a vacuum, a quote like that is absolutely right. Sometimes you just need a moment to reset so that you can shine. But those moments don't happen unless things are going well. And there's a reason that there's so much going on all at once, which is ultimately a good thing in our in our environment, right? How does that play into marketing strategies? Again, where connecting isn't necessarily numbers and data, right, we talked before banking is presumably numbers and data, a lot of marketing goes back to numbers and data because you want to, you want to make the profit and so forth. But we're really the connection is driving you rather than the numbers in the data.

Laurie McLachlan:
So I can tell you a couple stories, the first thing I'm going to say is, we're a business to business company. So we're selling our product to businesses, as opposed to just everyday people. I think this comes into play with a sales process like that, right, a buyer is going to tell you, they need to solve a particular problem, that they have a certain budget, that they're looking for technology, what they might not tell you is, this is their big career move that they think is gonna make them famous. Or they might not tell you that their boss is breathing down their neck, and they're scared of losing their job, and they want you to make them a hero. Like there's all kinds of reasons that people buy products and services, and you need to understand people and what motivates them. But in my own marketing, I was we were in a situation, this is maybe a year and a half ago, where, you know, I know that everyone line isn't into banking. So I'll be quick, we were going to a conference where, you know, everyone was talking about like the most cutting edge AI 30 years out technology transformation. And I think we had a really powerful story to tell. And so I didn't want to compete with that. And so I wrote a speech that our CEO gave in numerous locations, that was all about the average Joe. And so it was a story that we told to help them empathize with the person that's probably in their branch right now, while you're sitting in this conference, and going through the pain of using your product. So, you know, don't get distracted about things that are 30 years out if, in fact, Joe is in your branch right now ready to walk out. And so just being able to make things real, we got a lot of nods, we got a lot of people that remember that speech, we could have just gotten up and pitch the product. But if you tell a story, people remember stories.

Greg Farber: 
Your expertise you mentioned with sort of the human psyche and everything that we do, are you tailoring how you then move forward in your role based on that information?

Laurie McLachlan: 
We definitely try very hard to do that. And but it's something we never stop talking about. We're constantly talking about we call it discovery information. But you know, how do you really learn? Like the question that I want answered as a marketer? is what made that light bulb go off today? Why did they call me today? Like that's my starting point. And then you just follow that with about 100 Why questions to get to the real why. But that's that kind of insight is gold for me. I don't know if you're familiar, you probably are with Bob Moesta. Just kind of the author of the jobs to be done framework. But he, I mean, I don't I don't know him and he doesn't know me, but I've read his stuff. And I mean, he taught me a lot about how to ask questions, and I'm still not good at it, but I'm trying.

Greg Farber:
Do you have any any advice on how to ask questions?

Laurie McLachlan:
Um, well number one and like any good research or not ever assume and never lead the witness ever? So you never want to suggest an answer, give them multiple choice. You want to be calm and give off the impression that any answers, okay? You want to ensure that they know that the reason you're grilling them is because you want to give them the best solution help or advice? And never stop at the first why question.

Greg Farber:
So be transparent in your motivation, as you keep asking.

Laurie McLachlan: 
Yeah, so for example you know, you could you could ask somebody, you know, well, why do you? Why did you buy this car today? And they'd say, Well, my old one broke down. Really want to know, why did they buy this car today? Right? And so you're just gonna keep getting to why? And you're, it's probably always gonna lead to an answer that's emotional. Why they picked that car, you know, it's probably not, you know, the cubic inch space or the engine? Or maybe it is, but I do think you need to keep getting too why, either get to the surprising answer, or something emotional that's going to help you. And in the best of cases, it's a shocking answer. Like, oh, my gosh, we were assuming this was a problem. And that's the kind of insight you can get if you're patient enough.

Greg Farber:
Shocking in a good way, because it lets you then solve their need better rather than shocking in a oh, I don't know what to do with this way.

Laurie McLachlan:
The biggest mistake that any innovator any entrepreneur can make, is to focus on solving the wrong problem. Putting all of your money and all your resources and then you realize you were wrong. Yeah.

Greg Farber: 
So that's actually a good segue back to the other question I wanted to ask you from when you mentioned with the conference in the speech, and you mentioned sort of the average Joe, who's in the branch right now, and he has a problem that needs to be solved. But how do you blend that with innovation, because we also can't stay set stagnant, right, we do need to think about maybe maybe AI 35 years, 30 years from now is terrifying. I don't want to think about that, either. But you do have to think about innovation, alongside average Joe in the present, right? How do you blend those?

Laurie McLachlan:
I think about the future all the time as a hobby, I started a future stuff, Slack channel at work. I think the reason I mentioned that, and the reason that we wrote the story, the way we did is because it can get frustrating if you're in this banking industry for a long time to realize the innovations we were talking about 15 years ago, we're still talking about now and things just don't move that quickly. And I absolutely love talking about how AI might change the future of interactions. I just think it's really important not to get dazzled, to dazzle that you forget to kind of take care of things that you can fix right now. That would make a huge difference.

Greg Farber:
Hey, video famously killed the radio star and the radio is still going right?

Laurie McLachlan:
Well, you know, that's something else. It's funny being in marketing is people are always talking about the death of a channel, right? I'm like, podcasts just brought talk radio back. That's all they did. You know, like, I love talk radio, we just call it a podcast.

Greg Farber:
So maybe the method changes, but really, that that connection that people are looking for, whether it's audio or visual or some other that connection still remains?

Laurie McLachlan: 
Yeah, I think it's, I think it's gonna get pretty interesting. In the future. I think we're going to be in the movie or feel like we're in.

Greg Farber:
Kind of already feels that way sometimes.

Laurie McLachlan:
Yeah, kind of does.

Greg Farber:
Do you feel that those connections spill over into those your hobbies that you mentioned, whether it's a story or a poetry slam or something, you go to see a performer? Is there a connection there? And not necessarily you inviting yourself backstage and having a personal connection? But But is there is there is there a connection even just within being that the spectator? Is that part of what's what's driving you to these types of events or hobbies?

Laurie McLachlan:
Oh, definitely. I think if you're in the room with a storyteller and a big audience, and everyone's I mean, it's different than watching a movie. Oh, and I should say the moth other stories are autobiographical. So you're also learning about the person. These are all real stories.

Greg Farber:
Which again, is a connection even if you're just reading it.

Laurie McLachlan:
Yeah, absolutely. But I think the same thing that I get there I also am a little obsessed with reading psychology articles listening to all the psychology podcasts, I think think it really is just trying to understand why people do what they do, why they need to hear things in a certain way. And it's really just, I think, probably trying to... It captures my personal interests, but workwise. You know, just ensuring that what we're putting out there is being received as it was intended. You know, I like to say a lot of the world's problems happens between here and your ears. And that translation that happens, and if we can just figure that out. And so that's what I'm always trying to figure out. How do I say this in a way so that you hear what I mean.

Greg Farber:
And in a professional sense, so that it resonates with the majority of or even perhaps more than a majority of the folks you're either working with, or your target audience in a marketing environment or something like that?

Laurie McLachlan:
Absolutely. You know, I am obsessed with you know, I'm always convinced there's a better headline or a better way to pitch it and just trying to refine that story, which I've done for six years, I've probably rewritten that story a million times. It's a fun thing to do. And I think it's important.

Greg Farber:
So I want to go to a segment now we're going to do kind of what would you choose? And this can be a little bit rapid fire if you'd like. But if you have some sort of elaborate elaboration on on your answers, we'd love to hear your thought process. You said earlier, make sure that people always know there is no wrong answer. There is no right way to choose any answer is okay. What is Laurie prefer? Reading a book or listening to a podcast? or listening to a podcast? And any comment on why you prefer that?

Laurie McLachlan:
trolley? Who's same reason I love being read to or store? I don't know, I? I read a lot of articles. But I would much rather listen to a book, particularly if the author is the one reading it.

Greg Farber:
Interesting.

Laurie McLachlan:
Yeah.

Greg Farber:
I've gotten a lot more into podcasts lately. It's part of sort of, I guess, research for doing my own work. But historically, I've always been more about the reader because I feel less likely to be distracted if my eyes are following it. Versus if I'm listening to it, and then I see something distracting. It's easier for me to Oh, what did they just say? And I have to rewind a little bit. But...

Laurie McLachlan:
Yeah, that's fair point.

Greg Farber:
How about this one? Do you prefer having a routine or spontaneity?

Laurie McLachlan:
I prefer spontaneity. My weekdays are highly routinized. Sometimes I feel like I do the same thing in the same order. You know, I mean, I think we all do if we're working, but um, I definitely prefer spontaneity. I like to say, even if I had plans to I don't know, go to Paris next week, I'd probably resent that I had plans.

Greg Farber:
Well, then you could always change your mind last minute and Hong Kong instead. Yeah. I'm a little more on the professional side, perhaps. What do you value more design? Or data? And this goes back to what we said before, right? I think I know where you're gonna go with this

Laurie McLachlan:
That's a mean question.

Greg Farber:
Hey, there's no right answer. It was spontaneous.

Laurie McLachlan:
Design? I mean, if it's a personal choice design, absolutely. Edward Tufte I don't know if you know him. He wrote many books, including information is beautiful, and they turn data into art. I thought that was pretty clever.

Greg Farber:
That is a good way to blend the two answers in this in this this or that? Right? I kind of thought you might lean that way because of the connections versus dollars. Yeah. Okay. Here's another one that sounds easy at first glance, but might give you a moment to think about finding inspiration, or inspiring others.

Laurie McLachlan:
Hmm. That's such a hard one. It's like do I want to be selfish or giving? Both.

Greg Farber: 
Both are important.

Laurie McLachlan:
I would say. First of all, they're both important. I'm not gonna lie. Like if I stumbled on something that's just like crazy interesting, whether it's in science, or math or outer space or marketing. I get really excited about that. And yes, I like inspiring others, but there's something that happens when you're the discoverer of something new or beautiful.

Greg Farber: 
And that's great. I mean, honestly, I feel like there's kind of this old man I'm sure that if you're not taking care of yourself, you can't take care of others. And, logically, it's the same reason you're supposed to put your own safety equipment on before you help other people like they tell you on the plane with a little opening speech about safety procedures and everything right? And it seems like you said selfish on the face of it. But if you're in a better place, then you're better able to help others. I like your answer.

Laurie McLachlan: 
Thanks, less selfish.

Greg Farber:
Okay, last one, we talked a lot about what makes you tick and what you're passionate about and so forth. Is that passion, the most important thing? Or is it the purpose behind what you're doing?

Laurie McLachlan:
Um, it's the passion. So I love our company, I love our products. I love our team. I say that all day long online. But I also say, I could probably get just just as passionate, and marketing of paper towel holder, like, I would find a way to get passionate about it, let's just say that.

Greg Farber:
So you being passionate is more important than the product behind it, is what you're seeing as the purpose.

Laurie McLachlan:
I don't want people to interpret that I don't think purpose is important. But I think as a marketer, in particular, and maybe forever actually, for maybe for anyone that's working. If you've got to work, and you got to sell something, you may as well fall in love with the product, find like, find ways to get excited about it, and be passionate about it. And less you have that, like real, like maybe blinded belief and drive. It's kind of hard to do your part to do my best I should say, I don't want to speak for others, but I really have to get myself fired up.

Greg Farber:
Absolutely. And I don't think anyone's gonna think that that means you don't like the product. But yes, being excited about what you're doing. Probably makes you better at meeting the purpose.

Laurie McLachlan:
Yeah, I think it's, I think if you can do that, you can have more fun at work.

Greg Farber:
So we'll kind of move on with your with your passion here. We're going to talk a little bit and we're gonna ask you to bring some inspiration.

Greg Farber:
So for bringing inspiration, this is a segment we're introducing, where when we talked before the show, we asked you to think about something that inspires you and share with us here on the episode today. Something that brings you inspiration. And we also we just learned from you that finding inspiration is important, right? So let's let's dig into Laurie's personal inspirations. What did you choose to share with us today? And what's important about it? Why did you bring it in?

Laurie McLachlan:
Okay, I brought a podcast. I guess it's backwards. But it says the hidden brain.

Greg Farber: 
Yep, I can see it hidden brain.

Laurie McLachlan:
I don't know if you've ever heard it. But this is one of the many psychology podcasts that I love. This one's done in a storytelling format. The reason I brought it is because it's very accessible. And I just think it's really important to understand ourselves, why we make decisions, why others make decisions, so we can be more understanding of each other. And I don't know, every episode is entirely fascinating.

Greg Farber:
So you say it's accessible. So it's not highly technical jargon. You don't have to have an advanced degree to listen, you can just throw this on on your drive home, listen to it and get some instant insights into how people think.

Laurie McLachlan:
You can and I mean, I would also throw in even the American Psychological Association as a podcast, and there's this very accessible, so but yeah, hidden brains more entertaining. I recommend that one.

Greg Farber:
I love it. This is the kind of thing that I think sort of transcends. And we started in the opening by by saying this transcends banking. Yes, we're a bank. And we are hosting a podcast because we're a bank. But we're not trying to have it be about checking accounts and savings accounts. And this whole conversation you and I have been having here today. Those connections, how you said it best just a second ago, understand why other people make decisions, right? That can be so frustrating. Somebody makes a decision that you don't like, but maybe if you understand why they made that decision. You might like it more you might realize, oh, there's a there's a reason to this decision. This is going to work out better in the long run. Because I now understand what the person was thinking what their goal was, what their their purpose was in in moving it the conversation this way. So I think that that's really neat. Do you have any other thoughts or words of wisdom Are our listeners and our viewers? Before we wrap up here,

Laurie McLachlan:
No, just no matter what business you're in, you're probably dealing with people, you're probably selling something to someone. And, you know, don't underestimate the power of storytelling and human connection. Sure, you gotta sell your features and your products. But I do think it's a recipe for success if you can combine both.

Greg Farber:
Absolutely. Well, hopefully everyone has enjoyed the story we've told here today. So we did some storytelling, right. And I just didn't want to thank you so much for coming on today. Laurie, this has been an absolute blast. I always look forward to these episodes. I never know exactly how they're going to go or what we're going to cover and I had a great time today learned a lot and a lot of ideas to take back with and just kind of think about how do we interact and what do we do that make our connection stronger?

Laurie McLachlan:
Thank you so much for having me. I really enjoyed it.

Greg Farber:  
All opinions expressed by Laurie McLachlan are her own and not the opinions of Leader Bank, N.A., Leader Bank is not affiliated with the Hidden Brain Podcast. Don't forget to subscribe and rate our show. The Building Interest Podcast is available on all podcast platforms, as well as YouTube and Tiktok. We want to hear what you think of each episode and encourage you to submit any questions that you want us to cover. So please find us on our YouTube or TikTok channels and comment your thoughts. I'm your host, Greg Farber, my thanks to our fabulous production team Sydney Clapp and Ryan McNulty and until next time, for more information on today's subject, visit leaderbank.com. In addition to past episodes, you can also find our corresponding blog entries for more insights. This podcast is a production of Leader Bank, N.A., equal housing lender. Member FDIC. NMLS number 449250.