On today's episode of the Building Interest Podcast, we are joined by Leader Bank's Senior Vice President, Head of Retail & Elevate Banking, Dorothy Zahir. A leader in every sense of the word, she has a background in law, higher education, and financial services. Dorothy and our host, Greg Farber, discuss maintaining calmness in chaos, balancing fearfulness with fearlessness, and everything you need to know about building our next generation of leaders.

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Episode Transcript

Greg Farber  00:00

Whether you're seeking inspiration, wisdom or a fresh perspective on leadership and entrepreneurship, the Building Interest Podcast has you covered together. We explore the successes of groundbreaking leaders, the triumphs, the challenges and the invaluable lessons they learned along the way. Our discussions go beyond strategic decision making and delve into the personal hobbies and passions that keep these leaders inspired and grounded in their work. I'm your host. Greg Farber, let's jump right in today. We're joined by Dorothy Zahir, Senior Vice President, Head of Retail and Elevate Banking, a fearless leader in the banking space and a passionate advocate for women in leadership. Welcome Dorothy,

 

Dorothy Zahir  00:33

Thank you, Greg. Thanks for having me.

 

Greg Farber  00:36

Absolutely I'm excited so we know you have a lot of banking experience, which we'll get to, but first, let's just go back a little bit, and you had experience in some other fields, perhaps even schooling, before you found banking as your calling. Can you tell us a little bit about your earlier background?

 

Dorothy Zahir  00:54

Yes, I started out as a paralegal here in Boston, and I worked for a number of different law firms here, and I did employment law and personal injury, 

 

Greg Farber  01:07

So not even real estate at the time. 

 

Dorothy Zahir  01:09

Not even real estate. No, that would have been nice to carry that over. And then, you know, being a paralegal, I've always had this drive. I always wanted to do more in life, and back then, I didn't have my degrees, so I had to go back to school in order to grow I found a lot of blocks along the way without the degree. So I decided to leave the paralegal world the law firms, and go to university so I can get my degree. So I had three small children, and I started working at Suffolk University so they'd be able to pay for my tuition. And I did that, and I graduated in three years. I worked for the President of the University, so that was a great place to be. I always was in the right place at the right time, and once I graduated, he recognized something in me, and he made me the Director of International Alumni, so I was able to travel all over the world, and it was just an amazing experience. I did that for about 15 years. I finished my MBA in 2008 and that's when I knew I was getting to a certain age. Don't ask me, Greg, but I was getting to a certain age. I said, either I go corporate or I stay in higher ed for the rest of my career, and I like to do new things all the time. So I decided to go into banking and as a client manager, and believe it or not, all that skills that I learned along the way rolled right up into banking.

 

Greg Farber  02:44

Well, I was gonna ask that, like, what's it like switching from a completely different industry? Obviously, first you're in legal, then you're in the higher education area, never mind the schooling part, but the 15 years you worked there, and then just upending all that and going into banking, but you just said that they tied together somehow,

 

Dorothy Zahir  03:00

Yes, well, it's all about relationships. The common thread would be relationships. It's all about relationships. And working as a paralegal, you have to know the client, you have to talk to them. You have to really get to know everything. As a director of international alumni, I had a lot of international students. It's about relationships with their families, for fundraising. It was so you develop these relationships, you build them, you build the trust. And I found in banking, it's the same thing.

 

Greg Farber  03:36

So maybe the technical process you had to build from scratch and learn the industry from scratch, but you came armed with a comfort, a feeling that you already knew, like the people that you needed to have around you and things like that to make it work.

 

Dorothy Zahir  03:49

Yes, correct.

 

Greg Farber  03:51

What would you say was some of the biggest learning that you took away from those other experiences? Maybe let's talk about the international higher education. Like, what is, what do you learn doing that that shaped your outlook, you know, going forward. And don't say relationships.

 

Dorothy Zahir  04:08

No it's not about relationships. It's more about, you know, I'm dealing with multiple cultures right now, right when I was international alumni director all over the world, we have from South America to Asia to Europe, to you name it. It was everywhere I was able to travel. And you have to really learn to respect others cultures. And I even ended up, you know, I don't know, marrying someone from Bangladesh. That's a whole completely different culture that was for a good number of years. And I had in laws living with me, totally different. I come back. I'm from Massachusetts, blue collar family. There was no culture except for blue collar, and I had to learn and be accepting.

 

Greg Farber  04:52

So I I really echo that sentiment. You look at me and you kind of see like, just boring guy too, right? Um. Um, I'm actually an immigrant. Don't know if you knew that, and I don't have a business degree or anything like that. I have an anthropology degree, and I credit that with a lot of the same kind of thing that you just mentioned, where you really are learning about cultures and people and how just people interact, not like psychology, right? You're not digging into their brains, but you're, you're digging into that sort of, that larger picture of how people interact. And I found that to be so helpful in making relationships and connecting with with folks like you, said, of different cultures. So that really resonates with me. Yeah, when you say that,

 

Dorothy Zahir  05:33

I did hear your story before, and I found it really fascinating, because he you do not look like someone who came from a different country where I'm used to seeing people that look different.

 

Greg Farber  05:42

I just came from a country where from a country where people look the same as us.

 

Dorothy Zahir  05:44

Right, but completely different.

 

Greg Farber  05:46

Culturally, yes. 

 

Dorothy Zahir  05:47

Completely different. And that's what I learned. Culture is everywhere. You have to be just accepting of it.

 

Greg Farber  05:54

Absolutely. So now we're here in 2024 and you've now been in banking for quite a while, and you have a whole new role and a whole new perspective. You're overseeing a lot of growth and initiatives and things here at Leader, is there a particular, or maybe a significant professional challenge that you can share with us that you faced in forging this new role that you have and and how you would overcome that?

 

Dorothy Zahir  06:21

There really wasn't - How do you say they really wasn't? I didn't feel like there was any challenges. I just I'm the type of personality. I just jump. You know?

 

Greg Farber  06:31

Okay, let's explore that. How do you know when and where to jump?

 

Dorothy Zahir  06:35

You've got to take risks in life. You if you don't take the risk, like if I didn't take the risk from leaving a professor the laws and to go to the university. I mean, that pay cut was huge. We're talking $30,000 back in the 1990s that was a lot of money, but I found that you have to go backwards to go forwards. And that's what I did. I take that now even banking now it's like, do I stay in higher ed or do I go into banking? And I had a great job. I got to travel, I got to work with many, many really intelligent individuals. But I took the risk because I wanted to learn something new.

 

Greg Farber  07:14

So maybe the challenge was more personal and not professional.

 

Dorothy Zahir  07:17

Yeah, I think so. I like new things. I like to I get bored.

 

Greg Farber  07:23

Well, I've heard you described as both fearless and fearful, which are seemingly opposites, right? But you seem how to be able to blend them. And you just described a little bit that it is tough to jump from one thing to another, but yet you've done it. Clearly, there's that fearless side to it. How do you balance your decision making when you might be afraid of doing something, and at the same time you're fearless, and you just jump right in.

 

Dorothy Zahir  07:49

Well, I just jump right in. And that's when the fear comes afterwards, because you're like, looking back, 

 

Greg Farber  07:54

Oh it's after the fact?

 

Dorothy Zahir  07:55

Yes, it's after.

 

Greg Farber  07:56

You don't stand there and worry about jumping in. You just jump, close your eyes, and just run with it.

 

Dorothy Zahir  08:00

Absolutely. And then when I'm doing it, going, Okay, what am I doing? What do I need? I need to get, you know, and fear comes in, but once that comes in, you just have to lay the groundwork on what you need. You have to have a plan, a vision, and then you have to really put it in action.

 

Greg Farber  08:17

So we joked before about leadership, right? If you ran out, we would have to follow you, because you're the leader. And we said we'd talk about leadership in the episode. I think this is a great moment to sort of segue into that, because leadership can come in a lot of different forms. A lot of people might think of kind of the star quarterback as the leader, right? But it's a team game, and there's so many other ways to be a leader when you're in a team environment like we have here at Leader Bank. So you might have people that lead more quietly, or some that are more outspoken, or that lead more by example or mentoring versus how they compose themselves, or different things like that. Are you more of the now I've jumped and I'm going to grab this kind of leader, or are you more the sort of organic from within mentor type leader?

 

Dorothy Zahir  09:06

I think organic mentor basically is what I like. I have, you know, everyone has some form of emotional intelligence. I have a lot of humility, so I'm going to say that right now. But I have a lot of emotional intelligence. I can see a person and understand them, and what I like to do is meet them where they are and bring them up to where they want to be.

 

Greg Farber  09:30

How does that process work so you see them? How do you know what would work to bring them up?

 

Dorothy Zahir  09:37

First of all, you have to talk to them. You have to get to know them, and they have to be good listener. And once you understand that sometimes they don't know what they want, most times. I mean, who really does, right? So you have to talk to them. You have to get them to share more about their background, their culture, I mean, and then figure out, okay, where do you. Really want to go? Do you want to grow? 

 

Greg Farber  10:02

I think you definitely hit on something with the they don't know where to go right, because you are in front of an obstacle, a closed door or something, and you don't know that you can open the door.

 

Dorothy Zahir  10:10

Correct. 

 

Greg Farber  10:11

You don't know how to go forward, right? And someone has to kind of show you that that's where you see yourself. Sort of?

 

Dorothy Zahir  10:18

Yes, I do show them. And what I do is I show them the struggles that I had, because I had a lot of struggles to my life, so I talked to them. So in order for someone to share with me, I got to share myself first and show them that I made so many mistakes in my life, right? I mean, we who hasn't, and I made so many, but I learned from every single one of them, and I would not trade any of those mistakes, right? Because it makes who I am.

 

Greg Farber  10:46

Yeah, and it changes how you go about things the next time.

 

Dorothy Zahir  10:48

It's who I am, it's, you know, all those things roll up into who I am.

 

Greg Farber  10:53

Another way you've described yourself is finding calmness in chaos. And so I kind of want to go with that. In this sense, here you have the chaos of jumping in, like you said, fearless, but then your fear of fullness isn't preventing you're not paralyzed by your fear. Once you've jumped in, you sort of find this calm within the chaos. How do you do that?

 

Dorothy Zahir  11:18

I think that took practice. That really took a lot of practice meaning. 

 

Greg Farber  11:22

So it's intentional? 

 

Dorothy Zahir  11:23

It is intentional. You know, I never thought of it that way, but it's definitely intentional.

 

Greg Farber  11:28

Not just natural Dorothy, you jumped in and now just gonna be calm. You trained yourself to.

 

Dorothy Zahir  11:33

I grew up in a household that was very chaotic. There was no routine. And what happens when you have the chaos? If you get more excited and anxious, the worse the chaos gets. And I recognize that right away in my younger years, to stay if I stay calm, I can find simple little thing, finding your car keys. When you can't find your car keys or your phone, today's phone, right? 

 

Greg Farber  12:00

It's easy to panic, right? 

 

Dorothy Zahir  12:01

You panic, but if you just like, take a deep breath. Let me remember, let me let me look back, let me retrace my steps. I know that's it's simple little analogy, but it's true. I mean, I watch people that spiral out of control.

 

Greg Farber  12:15

Is there a way to practice that?

 

Dorothy Zahir  12:17

 Breathing. I am a big believer in breathing deeply.

 

Greg Farber  12:22

Because, I mean, car keys, phone eventually, you can find them or replace them or something, but you might encounter a crisis at the office one day.

 

Dorothy Zahir  12:28

Yes, 

 

Greg Farber  12:29

And you can't be the leader that's running around like a chicken with his head cut off.

 

Dorothy Zahir  12:32

No, you have to show them that. You know it's okay. You know, we're in a we're in a turmoil right now, but we're okay. We don't have to act that way. We have to figure out the best solution. I mean, even today, right today, I sit here, and I, just before coming on here with you, I was very nervous, who isn't, and I just had to, like, breathe, and you can see all the difference.

 

Greg Farber  12:58

Well, hopefully this is more calm than chaos for you? 

 

Dorothy Zahir  13:00

Oh yes, I don't know why I was nervous with you. Greg.

 

Greg Farber  13:03

So maybe, hey, all right, maybe that's my secret sauce. I was gonna ask you about your secret sauce. Maybe this calmness and that approach is your secret sauce, and that's what kind of differentiates you again from like the leaders that are perhaps more animated or outspoken, or things like that, that you are kind of this. You provide the calm, and you give everyone an opportunity to just step back and figure it out. And you're showing that to your team. Is that your secret sauce?

 

Dorothy Zahir  13:36

Somewhat, I think there's a lot of ingredients into the secret sauce is not just one. 

 

Greg Farber  13:43

Can we know more than one? 

 

Dorothy Zahir  13:44

Yes, 

 

Greg Farber  13:45

You have to give us all of them, it's a secret.

 

Dorothy Zahir  13:46

No, I don't want to give all of them.

 

Greg Farber  13:47

Completely secret.

 

Dorothy Zahir  13:49

That's true. Transparency. Okay? You have to be transparent with your team. You have to really tell them what's going on, otherwise they're not going to want to follow you.

 

Greg Farber  14:00

Right. They have to trust that  you know what's going on, especially if you're being calm, because they might think you don't get it and there's a big crisis going on, and why isn't she more upset?

 

Dorothy Zahir  14:08

Well, I would think my team would say that I'm not calm, so I don't want to put words in the mouths. I really think that they would think that I'm not that calm. But what it is, is it's internally calm, and that makes, that's makes the difference.

 

Greg Farber  14:24

Right, and allows you to keep a level head and, 

 

Dorothy Zahir  14:26

Yes.

 

Greg Farber  14:26

really focus.

 

Dorothy Zahir  14:27

And see both sides of everything.

 

Greg Farber  14:31

So moving to a completely different topic. Now, we want to touch on this a little bit. We know that you're an advocate and a voice for women in leadership, and women all around and a quite powerful one at that. I've seen some of your work here at the bank, and just the cultural impact it's had on the organization and some of the teams and how folks interact, tell us a little bit about that cause means to you. And I mean, I don't want to ask why it's important, because it should be obvious why it's important, but I want to hear from you.

 

Dorothy Zahir  15:00

You know, it's not just women that I really want. It's women and allies. So it's anyone who really wants to move up. So why is it close to me? Because it took me a long time to get here. It took me a lot of different roads, you know, paths going this way, that way, up and down. And I think if I had a little bit more guidance, I might have got here a little bit more or made it a little bit easier. And I think that if I could share my experience with women and men, I think that they would know that one, I'm human, they're human, and we can just, we can work together, and we can find a way.

 

Greg Farber  15:45

There's a lot in there. I have like, six different questions, and I've lost five of them, but I love that you mentioned allies, for example, too, because it has to be a joint effort. It can't just be one side, fighting for more, standing in the community and opposed by the other side, everyone has to join together, right? So I love that you mentioned allies, and you mentioned kind of, I don't know if the word you used was educating, but basically just sharing with folks how how to do Do you have any advice on what some of those lessons are, on how we can all be better in in promoting women in the workplace and professionally. Like, what can men do and men aren't doing?

 

Dorothy Zahir  16:28

Alright? So this is one thing I wanted to touch upon here, too. So it kind of goes with the women and allies and what, what I believe, but also what I find, I think, is going to bring the women and allies a little bit even deeper and better would be it's not just about mentoring, it's about sponsoring individuals, really taking people under your wing and promoting them. And I don't mean by promotion. I mean by really working with them, building them to a point where they can take on special projects or other projects where they can meet your network. You know, I have a great wide of individuals that I know, that you can introduce them to bring them along and show them so it's called, it's more about sponsoring someone, more than it is just talking to someone. It's really putting my reputation on the line for that person, because I believe in that person.

 

Greg Farber  17:23

Mentoring not just in you, sharing your knowledge and your actions, but encouraging their own knowledge and their actions.

 

Dorothy Zahir  17:31

And sharing my you know, whatever I have to open up doors for them. 

 

Greg Farber  17:37

When you picture that moving into the future. What's your vision? How does this move? What do you see?

 

Dorothy Zahir  17:44

What do I see for the program? I see that each leader at Leader Bank will pick someone in there. We have their right hand person, whoever it may be, and really sponsor them make sure that other leaders will know what their leader, what their person, is doing. I think that's really important to praise them, to make sure that- I'm kind of getting out of the way. But what I really want to say is, basically, I would love to have everyone at Leader Bank Pick someone, sponsor them, and then you're building a legacy here. You're building the succession plan that you really need here. I'm not going to be here forever, and neither is, you know, and you need to do that. It's nurturing them.

 

Greg Farber  18:29

It's not just you at the top leading which I know you hate that term, or that you don't want to be known as sort of the leader at the top, but I'm seeing this organic sort of tree style thing where everybody branches out and and it might all come from a common root, perhaps, yes, but it's growing in its own direction. And people are taking their branches in their own different directions. And I'm doing a lot of random hand gesturing here, but, yeah, but I'm getting that kind of right?

 

Dorothy Zahir  18:53

Yes, I do believe that that that would be a good way and, and the way you described it, with your hands going which way, it's because we're all individuals too. So they're going to change it, they're going to tweak it, it's all going to be different. 

 

Greg Farber  19:05

And you have to be okay with that. 

 

Dorothy Zahir  19:06

And you have to be okay with that. I call it sort of like when I'm helping individuals, you're planting seeds. And people do some individuals that I had been friends with for a long time, they get upset when those seeds don't take as fast as they want them. I have planted seeds all along my career with individuals. I don't even know how it changed them, but it has changed them, just like other people have planted seeds in me, and it has changed me. It's just the way it works

 

Greg Farber  19:37

You've reminded me of and this is completely unrelated to work, because it's about children. But there's a book called "The Prophet" by  Kahlil Gibran, 

 

Dorothy Zahir  19:44

Oh my god, it's my favorite book. 

 

Greg Farber  19:45

Oh, you like that book?

 

Dorothy Zahir  19:46

Oh my god, it's my favorite book, haha.

 

Greg Farber  19:47

 There's the portion in there about children.

 

Dorothy Zahir  19:49

Oh my god, they don't come they don't come from you. They come through you.

 

Greg Farber  19:54

Right. And the thing that stuck with me was that you send them forth as arrows, like this, idea that you can. Pull back, and you can point them in the right direction, but once you've let go, they are on their own, and they have to find their own path, but you guided them to it, yes, and it sounds like you're applying a lot of that same sort of philosophy to this. 

 

Dorothy Zahir  20:14

I can't believe you mentioned that book. I love that book. 

 

Greg Farber  20:16

See, told you you didn't have to be all stressed out. This is great. So then, I think a theme that we're kind of coming on here then is that business leadership is a strength that isn't about being business dependent. It's person dependent. 

 

Dorothy Zahir  20:36

Yeah.

 

Greg Farber  20:37

It's the person and within that puts forth that strength, regardless of the industry that you're in, if you had stayed in law or if you had stayed in higher education, I bet you would be just as much an advocate and mentoring and leading folks as you are here at the bank today. 

 

Dorothy Zahir  20:55

I agree. 

 

Greg Farber  20:57

So let's take that completely out of the office. Then, when you aren't working, what do you do for fun and how do you spend your personal time? Are you as much of a mentor and a leader in your personal time?

 

Dorothy Zahir  21:07

Well, I have a lot of children.

 

Greg Farber  21:08

Or is it I need to disconnect and go do something completely different.

 

Dorothy Zahir  21:11

No, I you know, I have family, I have children, I have grandchildren, I have so I like to spend time with them. I love to golf. I do that as much as I possibly can. I love to, believe it or not, play darts. I love card games, like any games at all. I play tons of games. I love games.

 

Greg Farber  21:32

Nice. So would you say you ever had an experience in those activities where the lessons you learned there just out and about having fun end up allowing you to better strategize or find a solution, or bring someone along at the at the workplace.

 

Dorothy Zahir  21:49

I think yes, and I think how I do it is just by, again, connecting with individuals. When you're playing games with them, you're talking to them. You know, I didn't start golf until 2012 and that's when my career kind of took off, believe it or not. So here I am playing, but I met with many, many women who golfed in the financial world, and we were able to refer business back and forth. And to this day, I still do it.

 

Greg Farber  22:18

So you can enjoy something and still take business lessons out.

 

Dorothy Zahir  22:21

Yes you can take, so for the business side, but on the mentoring side, it's you talk to people, you just share with them, and they share with you, and you know, you take some of that information from them, and you grow from it, and they do the same.

 

Greg Farber  22:36

So now we're going to switch. We're going to go to a new segment. This is a segment we call What Would You Choose? And I'm going to ask you a couple of rapid fire either or questions. You're going to pick one, and there's no right or wrong answer. Now you might want to tell us why you picked what you picked. You might not, but it's usually going to be very interesting, because now everyone's had a chance to kind of listen and get to know you, right? And we we hopefully, now understand a little bit of what makes Dorothy tick. Now, stability or flexibility. 

 

Dorothy Zahir  23:10

Flexibility. 

 

Greg Farber  23:12

You want to expand on that at all?

 

Dorothy Zahir  23:14

Well, some people see black. Some people see white. I see gray. It's you got to be flexible on everything. It's like you gotta.

 

Greg Farber  23:24

Can't jump off the defense deep end fearlessly, 

 

Dorothy Zahir  23:26

Yes!

 

Greg Farber  23:26

and then not be flexible to deal with wherever you landed.

 

Dorothy Zahir  23:30

You have to be flexible. And I think that that keeps you learning all the time by being flexible, because if you're so set and stable, doing the same thing the same way all the time. Where's the growth?

 

Greg Farber  23:44

So now you could be flexible in this next one, in either of the choices, launch something new or optimize the current. 

 

Dorothy Zahir  23:51

Optimize the current. Yeah, No, actually, no, nope. Go back. What was it again?

 

Greg Farber  23:57

Launch something new or optimize the current?

 

Dorothy Zahir  24:00

Yeah, I'm always new. No, no. I don't know why I said the latter. It is definitely always new. I got to do something new all the time.

 

Greg Farber  24:07

Now this next one, it's going to be, I mean, there's kind of an obvious answer, but I want you to think for a second, because you matter also, right? What would you rather inspire others or be inspired? 

 

Dorothy Zahir  24:26

Inspire others. 

 

Greg Farber  24:28

I thought you'd say that, but I wanted to kind of give you a pause there for a second.

 

Dorothy Zahir  24:32

I would love to be I love to be inspired. 

 

Greg Farber  24:37

One of my favorite things about the podcast is I always leave super inspired because of the amazing people that I sit with and feeling that inspiration from someone else is so cool.

 

Dorothy Zahir  24:48

Isn't it? Yeah.

 

Greg Farber  24:49

But I also kind of knew that you were gonna say inspiring others is your jam.

 

Dorothy Zahir  24:53

I like both. I really do, if I can pick both.

 

Greg Farber  24:56

It wasn't a choice, haha. Last one for me, passion or purpose. 

 

Dorothy Zahir  25:03

Passion 

 

Greg Farber  25:05

With a purpose, or just passion and it doesn't matter? 

 

Dorothy Zahir  25:09

Well, okay, just passion, just passion. And I'll tell you, purpose is really important to me, but passion I get sometimes, like a cup of coffee. Oh my god, I got oh my god, this is the best cup of coffee ever. I get really passionate about it. Little, little, little things I get really passionate about. 

 

Greg Farber  25:29

I love that, because you have to enjoy stuff.

 

Dorothy Zahir  25:31

Everything. You have to enjoy everything. It's if I find something, you know, that I thought I lost. I'm like, oh my god, I found it!

 

Greg Farber  25:39

There you go. Purpose can come later.

 

Dorothy Zahir  25:41

Yep. And the purpose will come. 

 

Greg Farber  25:43

But the purpose is important. All right. So the other new segment that we have this year is called Bringing Inspiration, and this is where we asked you, when we talked before the episode, to do a little homework, dig back into the mind of Dorothy and share with us something that inspires you. And it can be whatever. It can be a story, it can be a physical object, anything. What would you like to share with our listeners that really brings you inspiration?

 

Dorothy Zahir  26:15

There's a lot of things that bring me inspiration. It's not just one thing, right? You know, my mother always inspired me. She was my strength. She was my rock. As you mentioned just a few minutes ago, others inspire me every single day. It's not just one thing, like I'll leave here. I'm pretty high off this. I'm inspired. I'll be more creative. I'll be more it just makes me want to do more.

 

Greg Farber  26:54

I think that's the best non answer we've had to this question. It's fantastic because yes, exactly that. Just recognizing that there's inspiration all around us, I think, is in itself, a pretty powerful statement. You can feel it. So that's all the questions I had for today. I don't know if you have any parting thoughts or any wisdom you want to share with with our listeners, or anything else you'd like to share.

 

Dorothy Zahir  27:21

No, I think you made it really easy. Thank you.

 

Greg Farber  27:24

Well, thank you. And thank you for coming. I absolutely like I said, I enjoy these I love the kind of back and forth. I love learning about other folks and what inspires and just so many different ways that we can be a leader in the sense that we are impacting others in some positive way.

 

Dorothy Zahir  27:43

I agree. 

 

Greg Farber  27:44

Thank you for that. 

 

Dorothy Zahir  27:44

Thank you.

 

Greg Farber  27:45

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